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Distinguishing newsstand from direct sales comics Options
outcast
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 4:33:32 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
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I'm new here at CCL. I see a lot to like here, and I intend to stick around for awhile.

There is one thing, though, that is causing me considerable frustration. That one thing is the failure of the site to distinguish newsstand comics from direct sales comics.

My current collecting resources are directed toward adding to my collection newsstand copies of comics I already own as direct-sales comics, with initial emphasis on Marvel's earliest comics that were published with direct-sales versions (I find diamond price blocks ugly, and the slashes through barcodes just offensive).

I see that this has been discussed on CCL message boards, with an apparent decision NOT to distinguish between the two types of comics, except when there is a demonstrable difference in the markets for the two types.

Let me point out that, as a collector currently primarily interested in newsstand comics, that the lack of distinction in the listings adds considerable friction to my process of finding and ORDERING and PAYING FOR the comics that I want to purchase! The argument that there is no difference in the comics' values is irrelevant to me. For me to identify comics I am willing to purchase, I have to send messages to various dealers, one by one, and wait for replies before I can decide what to buy. Only after receiving replies will I be able to place an order, and to pay for comics that I have decided to buy. Just now, I have spent over an hour sending such messages to dealers, and I don't think I covered more than a dozen issues.

With a more customer-friendly database, I could have already identified the comics that suit my current collecting needs, and could have placed an order. I would be happy, the dealers from whom I decided to order would be happy, CCL would have booked some commission revenues, and the world would be a better place. As things stand, though, I am waiting on responses from dealers, and I am realizing that getting through my whole list is going to take several days or weeks instead of the minutes or hours that it ought to take.

Someone may suggest that my objectives could be achieved by dealers' simply stating in their listings whether their for-sale copies are newsstand or direct sales comics. While that might be better than the current state, I am concerned that such statements might not be accurate enough to improve matters. As I have looked around the Internet at comics sales and information sites, I have found a large number of comics inaccurately identified as "newsstand" or "direct sales." The best solution, I believe, would be to include in the library scans of both versions; dealers will then find it simple to match the comics they have for sale to the appropriate cover scan on the site.

I urge reconsideration of this issue by the appropriate decision-makers.
Xylob
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 6:46:06 PM

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outcast wrote:
...I see that this has been discussed on CCL message boards, with an apparent decision NOT to distinguish between the two types of comics, except when there is a demonstrable difference in the markets for the two types.

Let me point out that, as a collector currently primarily interested in newsstand comics, that the lack of distinction in the listings adds considerable friction to my process of finding and ORDERING and PAYING FOR the comics that I want to purchase! The argument that there is no difference in the comics' values is irrelevant to me...
Initially it really wasn't much of an issue (no pun intended) but your post here clearly shows that this may be a separate niche market.
I have been noticing more and more over the last 2 years or so that more people are beginning to seek out the news stand issues and to further illustrate this check out Mile High's listings - very recently they have started adding separate listings for news stand editions of 80s to late-90s DC comics and the news stand editions are often listed at a much higher price - even for books in lower condition.
I've been seeing this trend on That Auction Site too.
Is this simply a momentary trend, or an emerging niche market?
You are certainly not the first member here to indicate that you want news stand editions listed/indicated separately in the database and you definitely won't be the last. I think this may become an area where CCL could be losing out on sales....

CCL may need to take a closer look at their policies - but please understand that this decision is NOT one that can be made by the approvers.
Joe Butler, Steven Boyd, and that other dude will have to be the ones to make this decision.

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!
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Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
Thundercron
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:14:07 PM

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Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

comicscastle
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:34:45 PM

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Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


pottersan
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:39:55 PM

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comicscastle wrote:
Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...
Nailbiting

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Thundercron
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:44:34 PM

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comicscastle wrote:
Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...


So you would quit CCL because you don't want to keep pace with a changing market?
outcast
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 7:51:51 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
Points: 1,855
Thundercron wrote:

.
.
.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.


I think my original post alluded broadly to solutions that would leave it to sellers to specify in text whether their comics are newsstand or direct; I am afraid that a drop-down selector would similarly be subject to listing inaccuracies.

Also, there have been lots and lots of direct-only comics published; these would not have to have newsstand variants added.

Your words of support are appreciated; thank you.
CuriousGoodsNComics
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:09:41 PM

Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 3,724
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comicscastle wrote:
Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...


not easier, believe me ive had a good time wasted over at AA
comicscastle
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:14:24 PM

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Thundercron wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...


So you would quit CCL because you don't want to keep pace with a changing market?
I'm 62 years old and I would rather quit than change. I've been on this site as a seller for over four years and have only had one customer ask me to check to see if a book was direct sale or newsstand, and he was looking for the spider-face direct copies. It absolutely is not worth the extra work this would cause.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


comicscastle
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:16:03 PM

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CuriousGoodsNComics wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
Thundercron wrote:
Sooooo glad this is being brought up again.

One of the arguments against changing the current policy has been that it would be ahuge undertaking to add variants to nearly every single comic published from the late '70's to now. Also, adding the variants would create havok on comics already listed for sale. Further, it would make the database look plain messy. All of this is true. My solution has always been to simply add a drop-down box to the Item Details page of each comic listing. The default would be "None Specified" (this would render current listings unaffected by the change, plus those sellers who want to opt out, can). The other two options would be Newsstand and Direct.

I'm no web designer, but it seems to me that this would be easier than adding variants to everything.

Easier still would be moving all 45,000 books in my store to Atomic Avenue. Just saying...


not easier, believe me ive had a good time wasted over at AA
I've been using ComicBase for 15 years and already have all my books listed. I would only need to remove the books I don't want to sell.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


SwiftMann
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:24:07 PM

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No one has ever said that a newsstand market doesn't exist. It's just a matter of it being amazingly small. Perhaps it is growing and a change should be considered. Perhaps the three or four vocal folks over the last three or four years are the extent of the interest and it's simply not worth the incredible effort.

Personally, I'm mildly disappointed when I get a newsstand edition and would like seperate entries if it was quick and easy. But it's not and I' not that disappointed.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
SwiftMann
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:17:21 PM

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Plus, I don't want Pat to leave.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
outcast
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:46:32 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
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Joined: 7/28/2012
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comicscastle wrote:
I'm 62 years old and I would rather quit than change. I've been on this site as a seller for over four years and have only had one customer ask me to check to see if a book was direct sale or newsstand, and he was looking for the spider-face direct copies. It absolutely is not worth the extra work this would cause.


Well, I wasn't trying to create extra work for sellers, nor to chase anyone away from selling here.

I wonder if there might be a solution that would let users choose between (1) newsstand, (2) direct sales, and (3) unspecified version. Sellers who don't want the bother could list their wares as unspecified, and buyers who really don't care could use the unspecified listings. Sellers who want to get the business of buyers who do care could use the specified versions. Buyers (like me) who have a preference could ignore the categories not suiting their preference.
kilroy10145
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 4:55:13 AM

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outcast wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
I'm 62 years old and I would rather quit than change. I've been on this site as a seller for over four years and have only had one customer ask me to check to see if a book was direct sale or newsstand, and he was looking for the spider-face direct copies. It absolutely is not worth the extra work this would cause.


Well, I wasn't trying to create extra work for sellers, nor to chase anyone away from selling here.

I wonder if there might be a solution that would let users choose between (1) newsstand, (2) direct sales, and (3) unspecified version. Sellers who don't want the bother could list their wares as unspecified, and buyers who really don't care could use the unspecified listings. Sellers who want to get the business of buyers who do care could use the specified versions. Buyers (like me) who have a preference could ignore the categories not suiting their preference.


I once heard of a buyer who collected only the comics that were released on the month and day he was born. Everyone has a preference on what they want and personally outcast I don't mind the request for information. (Sorry I didn't have what you were looking for.)

Isn't that part of the 'hunt' in collecting? I guess what I'm saying is if it's that important, what's the big deal in taking the extra step?
Xylob
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 6:47:07 AM

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SwiftMann wrote:
...
Personally, I'm mildly disappointed when I get a newsstand edition and would like seperate entries if it was quick and easy. But it's not and I' not that disappointed.
agreed on all points.

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!
Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...

Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
LadyJay
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:26:00 AM

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outcast wrote:
I'm new here at CCL. I see a lot to like here, and I intend to stick around for awhile.

There is one thing, though, that is causing me considerable frustration. That one thing is the failure of the site to distinguish newsstand comics from direct sales comics.


If any of the books you're looking for are in my store, take a look at the details page for the book. I have actual cover scans of everything, so you can tell whether you'd be getting a direct or newstand edition.



outcast
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 9:44:40 PM
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LadyJay wrote:

If any of the books you're looking for are in my store, take a look at the details page for the book. I have actual cover scans of everything, so you can tell whether you'd be getting a direct or newstand edition.


Thank you, LadyJay. Offhand, I don't recall seeing your handle listed in the stores offering the comics I was looking for yesterday, but I will watch for listings from you.
The_Valiant_One
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:35:20 AM

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outcast wrote:
I'm new here at CCL. I see a lot to like here, and I intend to stick around for awhile.


We're glad you're here! I'm Steve and I'm the Director of the site. Welcome to the show.

outcast wrote:
There is one thing, though, that is causing me considerable frustration. That one thing is the failure of the site to distinguish newsstand comics from direct sales comics.

My current collecting resources are directed toward adding to my collection newsstand copies of comics I already own as direct-sales comics, with initial emphasis on Marvel's earliest comics that were published with direct-sales versions (I find diamond price blocks ugly, and the slashes through barcodes just offensive).

I see that this has been discussed on CCL message boards, with an apparent decision NOT to distinguish between the two types of comics, except when there is a demonstrable difference in the markets for the two types.


Pretty much. We acknowledge the niche exists, but we only have instances in the CCLdb, as you say, that either A) shows a significant secondary market value or B) demonstrates a change in the book..i.e. cover price, etc.)

outcast wrote:
Let me point out that, as a collector currently primarily interested in newsstand comics, that the lack of distinction in the listings adds considerable friction to my process of finding and ORDERING and PAYING FOR the comics that I want to purchase! The argument that there is no difference in the comics' values is irrelevant to me. For me to identify comics I am willing to purchase, I have to send messages to various dealers, one by one, and wait for replies before I can decide what to buy. Only after receiving replies will I be able to place an order, and to pay for comics that I have decided to buy. Just now, I have spent over an hour sending such messages to dealers, and I don't think I covered more than a dozen issues.


I gladly acknowledge that there are others that do exactly what you do. That being said, I think what you do is cool, but still a niche within a niche and a fraction of the market. "I'm a comic collector, but I only collect newsstands version." It's no different than saying "I collect comics, but only CGC graded 9.6s." We're not going to have an absolute perfect system for you in this regard, and your hunt is going to be more time consuming because what you're doing is a uniqueness in an already unique hobby. I'd wager even trips to the comic book shop are probably very time consuming ordeals for you as a collector, my friend.

outcast wrote:
With a more customer-friendly database, I could have already identified the comics that suit my current collecting needs, and could have placed an order. I would be happy, the dealers from whom I decided to order would be happy, CCL would have booked some commission revenues, and the world would be a better place. As things stand, though, I am waiting on responses from dealers, and I am realizing that getting through my whole list is going to take several days or weeks instead of the minutes or hours that it ought to take.


We do have visitors to the site every now and then that are also looking for newsstand variants of the books..but as Pat said...he had one person message him. This is one of maybe...MAYBE...10 responses I've typed up in the last 5 years. So while you're collecting niche is COOL...it's not 100% customer-friendly. If we did catalog them, you would be creating a website where almost NOONE has a 100% complete collection as well. Pretty much every comic book for a 30-40 year spread would have a variant and stores would need to completely readjust their inventory to accomodate a difference in barcode where, in most cases, there's no difference in price value for them. I notice a comment made about OVERSTREET and the way they price. I'll play devil's advocate and argue that sites like MILE HIGH are figuring to bank in on collectors like you who are willing to pay a higher premium for those newsstands. It's like people who collect VALIANT COMICS...if I'm patient, I can pretty much find what I'm looking for fairly cheap. Unless I shop with the other Valiant collectors...and I'm gonna pay a premium.

outcast wrote:
Someone may suggest that my objectives could be achieved by dealers' simply stating in their listings whether their for-sale copies are newsstand or direct sales comics. While that might be better than the current state, I am concerned that such statements might not be accurate enough to improve matters. As I have looked around the Internet at comics sales and information sites, I have found a large number of comics inaccurately identified as "newsstand" or "direct sales." The best solution, I believe, would be to include in the library scans of both versions; dealers will then find it simple to match the comics they have for sale to the appropriate cover scan on the site.


Again...you're talking probably hundreds of thousands of back issues to accomodate a niche in the market that either isn't fully realized...or only a few are doing.

outcast wrote:
I urge reconsideration of this issue by the appropriate decision-makers.


I appreciate you taking the time to post this. You're argument is certainly valid and you seem extremely passionaite about what you do. That's to be commended and respected IMO, so kudos. That being said...if there are more collectors like you who wanted a change like this, I absolutely would be inclined to reconsider policy in this regard. But, it's gonna take quite a few of them. I encourage any members who would like to see an addition of this nature to contact me personally via PM and lemme know what you think.

Again, thanks for the comments Outcast. We're glad you're a member and a part of our community.





Thundercron
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:22:56 AM

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The_Valiant_One wrote:
I appreciate you taking the time to post this. You're argument is certainly valid and you seem extremely passionaite about what you do. That's to be commended and respected IMO, so kudos. That being said...if there are more collectors like you who wanted a change like this, I absolutely would be inclined to reconsider policy in this regard. But, it's gonna take quite a few of them. I encourage any members who would like to see an addition of this nature to contact me personally via PM and lemme know what you think.

Again, thanks for the comments Outcast. We're glad you're a member and a part of our community.


Okay, I will.

I also think Pat and you have glossed over my suggestion above. Adding seperate variants to comics for the last 35 years may not be what's needed.
MrBigFeathers
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:17:54 PM

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I'll throw in my 2 cents. Years ago when I finally completed my runs of Amazing Spider-Man,Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of, etc. I never once cared if the issue was a newsstand or direct. To me, if it has the same cover price and the cover art is the same, it's the same issue. I know Marvel had a different box for the issue number and date for the newsstand issues but even with that I don't consider it a different comic. I know some people collect them but I would hate for them to start being considered different comics. If there is a different price sure, but not if the only difference is where it was initially for sale.

To me this is somewhat similar to printing errors. It is exact comic but it is different. I have a wonder woman issue that has a double cover, I wouldn't consider it a different issue though. Or, speaking of Valiant comics the X-O Manowar #0 "Ivory" cover. Still X-O #0 to me.

I know there is a market for them but I don't know that we should acknowledge them as separate issues here.

Just my opinion, nothing more.
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