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Where do unsold Newstand Editions go? Options
Tamwood
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:06:18 PM

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yourplace2 wrote:
I thought I read all of the posts, but may have missed some. Oh well, Forget everything I said then, it's clearly nonsense now.


Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly Silly


I thought this whole discussion was nonsense from post 1.
outcast
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:06:39 PM
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monidaw1 wrote:
(Batman cover omitted)
First find of the day. 2 digit end to the bar code and "Direct sales" not included. No Big C either so I'm guessing DC used a different distributer.
I've never seen the triple-C emblem on a DC; I don't think Curtis ever distributed DC.

Some history: In DC's early days its comics were distributed by Independent News. Some of the individuals who had ownership of titles at DC also had ownership of Independent News. In the late '50s, Martin Goodman's publishing company (that would become Marvel) had a crisis when its distributor abruptly went out of business. Desperate for distribution, Goodman struck a deal with Independent News, whereby his company was limited in the number of titles it could publish per month, and would remain exclusive with Independent News for ten years. Early Marvel's distribution was controlled by individuals whose primary comics interest was in DC! When the contract expired in 1968, Marvel signed with Curtis, and began its first great expansion, splitting Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish, and Tales of Suspense into two titles each, and adding a bunch of new titles including Silver Surfer.
monidaw1
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:33:41 PM

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Quote:
Demanding a distinction be made, but then saying you could sell whatever you want from the A variant is being willfully ignorant of the purpose of the database. There is no "bulk" listing spot.


Every single listing here is a "bulk" listing for anything that meets the details/specifics included in the listing. The more details added the less items can be grouped under it.

"The purpose of the database" is to make CCL money. Allowing the data to be seperated from each type by way of seperate listings while helping people to be sure the information is accurate is what a database is good at. Letting Denver offer newsstands contested only by 334 E-Bay listings doesn't do anything to put anything in CCL's coffers and the attitude here would probably turn away anyone who was interested in having these from us or subscribing to CCL to catologue them.



Quote:
I thought this whole discussion was nonsense from post 1.

You said you weren't seeing enough of me on the message board so here I am. I'm learning a lot of new things. Clown

Quote:
When Jemas arrived at Marvel in 1999, newsstand sales were at 14%, according to the BPA’s audits for the first half of the year, and the company made a conscious decision to walk away from the newsstand in favor of reprint collections in bookstores


That's the kinda data we need to make intellegent choices. That basically says by 1999 only 1.5 of every 10 Marvels was a Newsstand and we already know Newsstands had a rough life just surviving the rack/thumbs so therefore higher grade one's have to be in limited supply from that era.

The trick is being able to discuss the topic and gather the information without the endless debate. We already know CCL doesn't change in anyway they don't deem valuable and if the new softwareless database with bar scanner comes along next summer allowing mac users in then they'll let the newsstands in then just to have the scanners they're selling function properly. Who's going to buy a scanner that only works on 8.5 out of every 10 books or less? Silly


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manfred_spain
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:39:14 PM
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I just wanted to chime in from the perspective of a consumer who purchases newsstand comics specifically. In fact, I was the one who spurned monidaw1 to re-start this conversation when I sent over my newsstand comic want list (posted elsewhere in this thread). He was most gracious in checking through his stock to find what he had...and I purchased every single issue he could find. Not only that, but he has earned a very loyal customer due to his willingness to help.

It's just that hard for a newsstand collector today. I completely understand the inability to change the CCL system because it may be a coding nightmare. But I do think it's an exercise worth figuring out, because the market for newsstand issues (in my experience and from what I hear in groups) is on the rise.

You have a situation where collectors (completists) have everything else and want to continue to collect, so whereas they once were blind to their being a difference between newsstand and direct issues, they now see them differently.

I've collected Spider-Man appearances in all comics for about 30 years. Once you have a full set of books, you move to price variants and Mark Jewelers variants, etc. etc. But once you have all of those, having a full set of newsstand and direct editions becomes a way to keep the collecting juices alive.

And quite frankly, newsstands are seen as a major challenge in more recent years. They do bring a premium from completists -- whether on Ebay, at conventions, or even on Mile High's site. I see it happening. And you know Chuck wouldn't spend the man hours updating his database if there wasn't a viable market for the books.

Bottom line, identifying books as either newsstand, direct, or other (giveaways and promos) makes fiscal sense. You may not like it or believe in the difference, but there is a market. The CCL system not being able to be updated to reflect these alternates is a glass half empty approach, rather than really trying to determine the best method to allow for both to be offered.

The most viable option I saw earlier in the thread would be to include an optional dropdown or radio button option to select if a book is newsstand or direct when added for sale. It could be reflected in the dropdown listing of the issues available for sale. For example, where as the dropdown now states "$3.99 - VF/NM" it could be dynamically updated to show "$3.99 (n) - VF/NM" - where the (n) represents newsstand. Dealers who want to use it can do so, and anyone who doesn't want to mess with what they have can ignore it. I don't know what the interface for adding books looks like, but as someone who sells websites for a living, this seems feasible.

I've gone on too long, but let me add a quote from an email I received from a fellow collector this morning. It serves to highlight why this problem is worth solving...

"I just got back from the Atlanta "mini" Comic Convention. It was pretty disappointing overall, but I did still find a couple great comics for my collection. The sad part is that I found no Newsstand Editions of Amazing Spider-Man that I needed. I think many of the dealers are now looking for them as well. It is sad when you go to a show with a huge pocket full of cash and walk out with 75% of it still."

Buyers want to be able to find Newsstand comics. Mile high is expensive as all get out, Ebay is extremely hit or miss. CCL has an opportunity to lead in this area. My request and advise is the same - figure out how to make it work so dealers can use it if they want. Then the proof will be measurable if the sales show up.
monidaw1
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:03:32 PM

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Welcome to CCL!!!! Wave

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Jim
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:09:36 PM

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I'd encourage Super Sellers to create "Newsstand Shelves" in their stores if they want to offer them. They can also include personal images with their listings so that buyers know what they're getting.

Thanks for the lively discussion guys.

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manfred_spain
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:17:51 PM
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Jim wrote:


I'd encourage Super Sellers to create "Newsstand Shelves" in their stores if they want to offer them. They can also include personal images with their listings so that buyers know what they're getting.



Shelves are better than nothing, but they can't be searched site wide, unless I'm missing something. You would have to visit each sellers store to find a shelf. Unfortunately, that isn't practical.
LadyJay
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:17:52 PM

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comicscastle wrote:
I'm not sure why you can't grasp this, but you are wrong. If a variant is made for newsstand editions then they do not belong under the "A" listing any longer. The "A" listing is for any issue that is not listed as a variant, not for any issue you want to list there. Once a book is listed as a variant that is the only place that variant belongs. You keep forgetting this is a DATABASE not a site whose only purpose is to sell comics. Comic Collector Live sells a database. That's what subscribers pay their yearly fee for. They let stores use the database to sell comics, but unlike Mile High or eBay selling is not their only concern.


From a buyer's perspective, I have to agree with Pat. If the newsstand versions get their own variant listing, then as a buyer I have the right to expect that I will only get a newsstand version if I order that specific variant. Meaning that if I don't want the newsstand version I should order the "A" Variant and I'd have a right to be upset if I received the newsstand copy, since that would not be what I ordered.

In other words, for an Issue with 2 Variants A and B with B marked as "Newsstand", if I order A I'm going to expect that it's NOT a newsstand version. In that case, why would I accept a newsstand version, when if that's what I wanted I would have purchased that version?

Members who follow the Forums may know enough to contact the Seller first to verify what they are getting. A lot of members don't read the Forums, they're here strictly for the database and/or shopping/selling.

I don't have a problem with the concept of adding the newsstand versions, and if this was just a Collector's Database I'd say go for it. Since the database also supports stores, I feel CCL needs to think very carefully before making a change like this. All of the suggestions mentioned here sound reasonable on the surface. When you start looking deeper, they each have drawbacks that would need to be identified and resolved. Otherwise any increase in revenue generated by the change could easily be offset by problems arising from buyers receiving something other than what they expected.



Xylob
Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:38:23 PM

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LadyJay wrote:
...for an Issue with 2 Variants A and B with B marked as "Newsstand", if I order A I'm going to expect that it's NOT a newsstand version. In that case, why would I accept a newsstand version, when if that's what I wanted I would have purchased that version?...
cuz it's "bulk" ya know - that's the gamble you have to take with a system that's designed to please only one person

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G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
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monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:12:01 AM

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[quote][...for an Issue with 2 Variants A and B with B marked as "Newsstand", if I order A I'm going to expect that it's NOT a newsstand version. In that case, why would I accept a newsstand version, when if that's what I wanted I would have purchased that version?...
cuz it's "bulk" ya know - that's the gamble you have to take with a system that's designed to please only one person/quote]

It's already a gamble as you put it right now with us doing nothing at all to change anything.

If you're in a store buying A and there is no B offered for sale then there is no B to imply your getting anything. For those who are extra paranoid you have the option to add a simple disclaimer to the store that says such. It really is that simple to allow others to have what they want. You don't want to participate, then don't.

I'm glad we've had this discussion for a number of reasons some of which we haven't gone into yet include;

Use of the software as a POS setup in retail

Insurance


I am considering moving out into a full B&M setup next year. I already see great potential for using the software as a POS system if not for directly tracking and charging which is possible a few ways I've already thought of then at least as a sit down at the counter and lets see what the system says we have filed away that you may want, some of which may or may not even be uploaded to the net and viewable online. One of the drawbacks is the sheer time it takes to sort, grade and look up prices for every issue which the scanner thing CCL wants I'm hoping will speed this up some. My concerns for the setup include the amount of time it's going to take to track down and upload all the newsstands once they say "go". The logical thing to take some of the panic/swamping/workload off the back end by getting some in ahead of time even if it's just one's we can expect to be rarer. These changes are coming, it's just a question of how long until they're implemented and how much of the work we pass on to have to deal with later. If it's possible they're going to be worked in in as little as 5 months from now then hopefully the setup will be even more user friendly by then, and maybe with a couple minor tweeks in capability and expected perception. Hopefully they don't wait till the last minute to green light this so that when it goes into play it's more complete and useful sooner.

I'm also worried to death that the switch to a software only setup is going to be a huge risk meaning right now if CCL closes down we at least have our software to keep and continue to use offline. If everything lives online only in the new softwareless system and CCL gets bought out or clossed down two years from now or just shuts down the funding paying the servers then we lose everything, all the work, database and all.

I'll deal with the insurance aspects later, gotta get some work done first.

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Thundercron
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:42:19 PM

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Alright...what in the world is this newfangled softwareless, bar-code, scanner system thing you keep mentioning? I haven't heard anyone else talk about it...
comicscastle
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:00:02 PM

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Thundercron wrote:
Alright...what in the world is this newfangled softwareless, bar-code, scanner system thing you keep mentioning? I haven't heard anyone else talk about it...
it's a wish and a dream, like buying a lottery ticket. Don't hold your breath.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:09:58 PM

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Quote:
Alright...what in the world is this newfangled softwareless, bar-code, scanner system thing you keep mentioning? I haven't heard anyone else talk about it...

Two different things CCLs suppossedly working on.

A softwareless setup so Mac users can give CCL money. Not being a computer person I can't get into details of why, how or what, just picturing it in my head as a big change that sounds like it's going to mean the computers have to be connected to the internet all the time to do anything with the data which is great sounding for aspects like trying to have multiple computers displaying the same information which seems impossible now and with upload/sync times taking in the realm of 24 hours now to pull off, much faster. It's also kinda scarey thinking you have to have internet all the time to be able to do anything with the data whereas with the software now, we can still work offline with our collections. I'm only a few years removed from dial-up connections here and seriously thinking about heading back into the boonies to chase country level store front rent. I was told about a month ago it was about six months away from reality which means we're in the 5 months away range now assuming they stay on pace.

I believe the barcode scanner thing was mentioned as a top priority by the ValiantOne in that thread many months ago about what CCL should focus on as being important to CCL. If it speeds up uploading I'm all for it and if having the chance to sell a few thousand to subscribers and stores kicks a little more in the CCL coffers then great.

I'm hoping common sense says the two are going to occur almost simultaniously and as such wouldn't mind crossing a few bridges now to start preparing, ESPECIALLY when doing so also provides benefits to CCL and the stores financially now while pleasing real customers, maybe attracting new ones along the way, all while continuing to distinguish CCL from the other sites and databases. I don't know about you but I tend to get a little happy when I find something new to add to CCL that the big guys don't already have. A reason to come, hopefully a reason to stay even if we do forget our manners and don't take time to welcome new members.

I'm also hoping they work in a few tweeks to make it a simple point of sale (POS) along the way. That's about all a POS system is, a database hooked to a cash register. Depending on how much tweeking goes into it it could even expand CCL greatly by getting into B&M's as their POS and getting passed on/endorse to more users, who may wander into some of the online stores for items their local B&M's don't have. I'm sure CCL wouldn't mind having the chance to charge a few thousand new subscriptions for POS use. With a few additional tweeks to allow individual stores to add categories that display only in their own stores the POS application becomes even broader reaching and more useful.

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Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:15:39 PM

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Of course the bar code "functionality" is worthless on early books published before the implementation of UPCs for periodicals, direct editions, and let's not forget that when comics first started getting barcodes many had the EXACT SAME generic 'comic book' barcode on them regardless of what the issue or title was...

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G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
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monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:46:00 PM

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Quote:
Of course the bar code "functionality" is worthless on early books published before the implementation of UPCs for periodicals, direct editions, and let's not forget that when comics first started getting barcodes many had the EXACT SAME generic 'comic book' barcode on them regardless of what the issue or title was...


I don't know if I'd go so far as worthless, just needing some tweeking. In terms of inventory tracking something could be assigned that would print out on a label which could be attached to comic bags to identify books kinda like those stickers on the back of Denvers comics. The good thing about having as much advance notice as possible is you have time to plan and work out some of the problems ahead of implementation and remove some of the work load from the kicking off point like getting a few newsies in here and there on a limited basis would do. Avoid the Christmas rush so to speak. Angel

Thinking big though, imagine having a setup where customers could walk in and buy in person without you getting charged fee's by CCL while at the same time the inventory was offered online for online shoppers with all sales coming out of the same database at the same time having only been loaded in once. One system, two sales points, scanners that input and scan outgoing sales doubling their usefulness. Pray Want to grab a few boxes and run to a convention? Go ahead, the datas online, just haul your scanner with you, plug it in or maybe have them design on of those phone Aps I hear about to work as a scanner from your phone. No delisting or forgetting what you took to the convention and didn't bring back or worrying about it selling while you're peddling it elsewhere. Have a larger setup, imagine doing that while your employees keep the store open and the site stays open all at once.
In CCL terms they get the penny for uploads for the walk in inventory since it's all one big collection now along with their monthly fees and their online sales commisions and a few pennys here and there for scanner sales.

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Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:56:04 PM

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I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.

I'm also pretty sure that it's quite low on the list of priorities.

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Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:37:51 PM

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Quote:
I'm also pretty sure that it's quite low on the list of priorities.


Allow me to directly quote The Valiant One from Feb 3rd.

Quote:
In the time I've been associated with CCL, I try to look at things now as to what is most beneficial to CCL (ergo more money). With more money comes more updates. Here's some things I've identified that I think would not only be the most beneficial to CCL the quickest, but would also make CCL some more money to cover more updates:

1) Online cataloguing solution OR MAC Compatibility (Online could include iPad application or the ability to access CCL date anywhere from any online source.)
2) Discount Code for stores
3) Hold Box/Subscriiption Service for New Comics.
4) Cellphone notification System for wish list fulfillment, items for sale, etc.
5) Appraisal/Value Collection
6) The ability to add multiple items to a cart at the point of purchase.
7) Barcode Scanner


Now assuming they'd only achieved a single goal every 3 months they'd still have a decent shot at implementation within the next 5 months.

Quote:
I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.


A scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Coming up with a simple program and plan to assign a few numbers along with printing a few stickers shouldn't stump the computer geniuses here. You gotta have faith that we have competent people at the helm that can make things happen.

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scotteaves
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:44:53 PM

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monidaw1 wrote:

Allow me to directly quote The Valiant One from Feb 3rd.

Quote:
In the time I've been associated with CCL, I try to look at things now as to what is most beneficial to CCL (ergo more money). With more money comes more updates. Here's some things I've identified that I think would not only be the most beneficial to CCL the quickest, but would also make CCL some more money to cover more updates:

1) Online cataloguing solution OR MAC Compatibility (Online could include iPad application or the ability to access CCL date anywhere from any online source.)
2) Discount Code for stores
3) Hold Box/Subscriiption Service for New Comics.
4) Cellphone notification System for wish list fulfillment, items for sale, etc.
5) Appraisal/Value Collection
6) The ability to add multiple items to a cart at the point of purchase.
7) Barcode Scanner


Now assuming they'd only achieved a single goal every 3 months they'd still have a decent shot at implementation within the next 5 months.


Which of those first 6 have been implemented to even give you any remote thought that #7 could happen in the next 5 months?

Quote:
I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.

Quote:
A scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Coming up with a simple program and plan to assign a few numbers along with printing a few stickers shouldn't stump the computer geniuses here. You gotta have faith that we have competent people at the helm that can make things happen.


You're right - the scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Go buy a POS software that supports custom barcodes if you want that because you won't see that in CCL. If that actually ever does happen, the intent will be to read an issue's barcode and most likely add the issue to a user's collection. As many other folks have said, this is a collecting DATABASE with a secondary function of allowing sales. What you're asking for isn't a function of a collecting database.

monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:59:01 PM

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Quote:
Which of those first 6 have been implemented to even give you any remote thought that #7 could happen in the next 5 months?


It sounds like the time frame I was given will have many of them going into effect at the same time with the new online catologing/ welcome to the group MAC users.

Quote:
As many other folks have said, this is a collecting DATABASE with a secondary function of allowing sales. What you're asking for isn't a function of a collecting database.


Maybe not but as already mentioned, this database exists to make money for CCL. Anything that can make money for CCL in addition to what you want as a database is fair game including having special variant covers created just for CCL, bar code scanners and if a couple easy tweeks take that same technology and open it up for use by thousands of potential additional monthly subscribers then it not only should happen, you can bet they'll eventually tweek it to make it so. It's about the $$$$.

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LadyJay
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:11:38 PM

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scotteaves wrote:
monidaw1 wrote:

Allow me to directly quote The Valiant One from Feb 3rd.

Quote:
In the time I've been associated with CCL, I try to look at things now as to what is most beneficial to CCL (ergo more money). With more money comes more updates. Here's some things I've identified that I think would not only be the most beneficial to CCL the quickest, but would also make CCL some more money to cover more updates:

1) Online cataloguing solution OR MAC Compatibility (Online could include iPad application or the ability to access CCL date anywhere from any online source.)
2) Discount Code for stores
3) Hold Box/Subscriiption Service for New Comics.
4) Cellphone notification System for wish list fulfillment, items for sale, etc.
5) Appraisal/Value Collection
6) The ability to add multiple items to a cart at the point of purchase.
7) Barcode Scanner


Now assuming they'd only achieved a single goal every 3 months they'd still have a decent shot at implementation within the next 5 months.


Which of those first 6 have been implemented to even give you any remote thought that #7 could happen in the next 5 months?

Quote:
I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.

Quote:
A scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Coming up with a simple program and plan to assign a few numbers along with printing a few stickers shouldn't stump the computer geniuses here. You gotta have faith that we have competent people at the helm that can make things happen.


You're right - the scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Go buy a POS software that supports custom barcodes if you want that because you won't see that in CCL. If that actually ever does happen, the intent will be to read an issue's barcode and most likely add the issue to a user's collection. As many other folks have said, this is a collecting DATABASE with a secondary function of allowing sales. What you're asking for isn't a function of a collecting database.


Gotta disagree here Scott, the software I use to catalog my collection already provides this function.



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