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First Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel aka House of M #3?

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monidaw1
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monidaw1
Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:40:35 AM
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Avenging Spider-Man 9-A (Sep 2012)

Appears to be

7 years after

House of M #3 (Sep 2005)

Quote:
The character was then featured as "Captain Marvel" in a false reality created by the mutant Scarlet Witch in the 2005 miniseries House of M.[41] This reality pandered to Danvers' subconscious desire to be accepted, as she proved to be the most popular superhero on Earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Danvers
4saken1
Sunday, March 10, 2019 1:23:47 PM
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monidaw1 wrote:
Avenging Spider-Man 9-A (Sep 2012)

Appears to be

7 years after

House of M #3 (Sep 2005)

Quote:
The character was then featured as "Captain Marvel" in a false reality created by the mutant Scarlet Witch in the 2005 miniseries House of M.[41] This reality pandered to Danvers' subconscious desire to be accepted, as she proved to be the most popular superhero on Earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Danvers


Indeed it is! Could it be that they're not counting House of M #3 because it's a different continuity? Usually this isn't the case when dealing with 1st appearances. Technically, I believe it should be House of M #3, though.
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monidaw1
Sunday, March 10, 2019 3:53:05 PM
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As near as I can tell, CCL is creditting Avenging Spider-man when that appears to be the 1st Carol Danvers in Captain Marvel "type uniform".

It would appear in unquestionable print that House of M has to be 1st. If not then there's a whole herd of Age of Apocalypse heroes and villains that should have later 1st appearences starting at X-Man #5 for Nate Grey/X-Man if we don't count alternate realities, continuities and timelines.

These are from Pulse House of M Special sold 20 days after House of M #3 according to CCL's data.





There was more in the issue but those two and the reference for HOM#3 should take any doubt out of the question.

Do we have a math major in the house?

For some reason I suspect 20 days difference isn't divisible by 7 so I suspect one of CCL's ON SALE dates for HOM3 or Pulse HOMS is wrong by 1 day unless we had a 6 day week back there I forgot about. Whistle

lcfrick
Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:36:14 PM
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This strikes me more as a cameo type scenario rather than a first appearance type situation.

However I think that anymore the word cameo has exited the lexicon of comic collecting and instead the terms used are "1st appearance" and "1st full appearance", with the "1st appearance" replacing "cameo" and "1st full appearance" replacing "1st appearance".
monidaw1
Monday, March 11, 2019 9:01:50 AM
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She had active rolls in multiple issues of HOM including some dialogue after HOM#3 so I would say even a "1st full appearance" was achieved by the series and Pulse HOM Special and I haven't even checked issues 5 and 7 yet since the stores copies are sealed in a bundle and I haven't dug my set out of the back yet. CCL even lists her in the credits under "Characters" for issues 5, 6, 7 and 8 but as "Carol Susan Jane Danvers" instead of the Captain Marvel name which she has been shown now to be going by at this time.

"Captain America" gets listed by his hero name as well as Steve Rogers so I would think the "Feminist" that she is, she would demand equal treatment. Laughing Like the US Woman Soccer players on Good Morning America this morning wanting equal pay for equal work, the creditting should probably be treated equally as well. Hypnotized
MoonKnight1
Monday, March 11, 2019 9:13:34 AM
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monidaw1 wrote:
Like the US Woman Soccer players on Good Morning America this morning wanting equal pay for equal work, the creditting should probably be treated equally as well. Hypnotized

In their defense, the US Women's Soccer team should actually be paid more than the Men's because they are so much more successful. Big Grin

If it was based on Equal Pay for Equal Work then the women should make double what the men do. Angel

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4saken1
Monday, March 11, 2019 7:24:59 PM
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MoonKnight1 wrote:
monidaw1 wrote:
Like the US Woman Soccer players on Good Morning America this morning wanting equal pay for equal work, the creditting should probably be treated equally as well. Hypnotized

In their defense, the US Women's Soccer team should actually be paid more than the Men's because they are so much more successful. Big Grin

If it was based on Equal Pay for Equal Work then the women should make double what the men do. Angel


I'm almost always on the side of equal pay for women, but if men's soccer brings in 20x more revenue (I don't know if this is the case or not), that would be a legitimate justification for the disparity in pay, IMO.
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MoonKnight1
Monday, March 11, 2019 8:52:24 PM
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4saken1 wrote:
MoonKnight1 wrote:
monidaw1 wrote:
Like the US Woman Soccer players on Good Morning America this morning wanting equal pay for equal work, the creditting should probably be treated equally as well. Hypnotized

In their defense, the US Women's Soccer team should actually be paid more than the Men's because they are so much more successful. Big Grin

If it was based on Equal Pay for Equal Work then the women should make double what the men do. Angel


I'm almost always on the side of equal pay for women, but if men's soccer brings in 20x more revenue (I don't know if this is the case or not), that would be a legitimate justification for the disparity in pay, IMO.

Screeeech!!! Veering off topic! Big Grin

What I was talking about is success on the field of play. Not really sure what kind of revenue any version of soccer gets in the US but the women's team has a better winning percentage than the men's and has actually won the World Cup and Gold Medal in the Olympics more times than the men have, which I believe is zero?

Heck, our men couldn't even beat Trinidad & Tobago last year. Loser

That is the disparity that I was referencing.

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SwiftMann
Monday, March 11, 2019 10:30:52 PM
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They can call her whatever they want, but it was a) an alternate universe tale that seemingly shares only the name as b) she's still in the Ms. Marvel outfit and c) she returns to 616 universe as Ms. Marvel and not a distinctly different character as the completely flawed example of AoA characters.

This is Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel that people give a flip about.

monidaw1
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 11:42:22 AM
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No, actually she went in as "Warbird"

That's from New Thunderbolts #6 a month before HOM.

While she was there she CONSIDERED going back to Ms Marvel


That's from HOM #1 "Eh, I'm Thinking about it"

The final choice is made by HOM#3.

HOM #3 on she's going by Captain Marvel for 6 issues and a special.

She ends up going back to Ms Marvel after HOM. Apparently clothing choices do not a preferred name make.

Side note, Captain Marvel chose to give up the name Captain Marvel and start going by Photon in New Thunderbolts #6 making the name available. He didn't even bother to change cloths before changing his name which seems to happen a lot.

monidaw1
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 12:18:24 PM
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Those would be from New Thunderbolts #11. Absolutely NO QUESTION that she's going by CAPTAIN MARVEL at that point even if she hasn't changed cloths.
bluedevil2002
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 12:37:25 PM
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monidaw1 wrote:
If not then there's a whole herd of Age of Apocalypse heroes and villains that should have later 1st appearences starting at X-Man #5 for Nate Grey/X-Man if we don't count alternate realities, continuities and timelines.


No, because the Nate Grey that appeared in X-Man #5 and beyond was the same character that was in #1-4 just transplanted from an alternate reality. Just like Dark Beast, Holocaust, and Sugar Man.
lcfrick
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 8:19:42 PM
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SwiftMann wrote:
This is Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel that people give a flip about.

(picture of Avenging Spider-man #9)


I think this sums it up about as well as it ever can be.

If you can convince people that HoM #3 is the first appearance of Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel, then more power to you.

It certainly worked out well for whoever decided they were going to convince a bunch of people that Detective Comics #850 is the first appearance of the Gotham City Sirens just because they all appear on the same page in different panels.

(On a side note, I seriously need to fish out my copy of Avenging #9 and make sure that it's not double bagged, because holy crap I didn't realize that that's a $200 comic now.)
monidaw1
Wednesday, March 13, 2019 1:04:35 PM
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Quote:
No, because the Nate Grey that appeared in X-Man #5 and beyond was the same character that was in #1-4 just transplanted from an alternate reality. Just like Dark Beast, Holocaust, and Sugar Man.


Actually the correct answer is, the after House of M heroes are the SAME heroes that were in House of M except some have memories of the event and some do not. In fact it appears large portions of the people on 616 remember HOM and Captain Marvel by name unlike AOA afterwards. See post below for crowds chanting her name.

That's from Giant Size Ms Marvel #1 AFTER she's BACK in the 616 universe.

Dark Beast was a name change after Age of Apocalypse just like Captain Marvel changing her name after returning to the 616 universe as Captain Marvel. In X-Men Alpha he goes by McCoy. In Factor X 1 he's even identified as "Beast" and continues by that name throughout the series in additional issues thru #4.


At this point it's just plain common sense that the first time Carol Danvers went by the name Captain Marvel was in House of M. AS9 isn't the first, it isn't the second, it isn't the 3rd and it may not even be the EIGHTH. I still have a lot of side stories during this period in other titles to work thru.

The question is which one counts as the First Full Appearance assuming HOM3 is only the 1st and not the 1st Full.

The facts and dates are above, a clear and exact timeline showing the progression in order from Warbird to Captain Marvel to later going back to Ms Marvel after many issues published as CM.

I'll have some more scans for you later when I have more time.





monidaw1
Wednesday, March 13, 2019 1:34:43 PM
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Quote:
c. she returns to 616 universe as Ms. Marvel and not a distinctly different character

Let's see if this takes the discussion out of it. She even says herself the Day After in Giant-Size Ms Marvel #1 that "I WENT BY THE NAME CAPTAIN MARVEL"
That's in her own words/thoughts.


She RETURNS/COMES BACK as CAPTAIN MARVEL ALSO!!








This is at least her 9th appearance as CAPTAIN Marvel AND This is in 616 universe.

Insert Lebron James Slam dunking Smiley here please. This last one being in 616 even breaks the backboard for 616 first appearance only arguments.

SwiftMann
Wednesday, March 13, 2019 3:25:41 PM
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In the Ms. Marvel/Warbird outfit.

No one is arguing that they didn't call her Captain Marvel in House of M. It's just that no one cares.

It's about the name AND Kree-style outfit that is in the movie and first comes together in the comics in Avenging Spider-Man #9 (which I sold for far too little money last year).
monidaw1
Tuesday, March 19, 2019 11:15:32 AM
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No time for reading other comments but here's maybe the 10-11th appearance of Captain Marvel Carol Danvers in Secrets of the House of M.



This one was entered in the database correctly last time I looked. It's nice when a database supplies accurate information right up front without the discussion. She's identified as Captain Marvel on the back cover also, scan available by request. Now back to our regularly scheduled UPS delivery.
4saken1
Wednesday, March 20, 2019 3:05:00 PM
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I've seen people listing Daredevil (2011) #15 as the first Cameo of Carol Danvers as Captain Marvell. One guy has it listed for $100 and another for $75, but nobody seems to be biting.
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MoonKnight1
Wednesday, March 20, 2019 4:35:48 PM
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There was a similar discussion a couple of years ago: When is a First Appearance not a First Appearance?

I do remember those House of M series and can say absolutely that Carol Danvers was called Captain Marvel in that reality. Now, does that mean that's her 1st appearance as CM? I'm thinking probably not?

When Jane Foster recently gained the powers of Thor and took on the mantle of Thordis was that her First Appearance or was it What If? #10. Confused

BTW - I will swear to my grave that the 1st appearance of Damage Control is not Marvel Comics Presents #19 but it is in fact Marvel Age Annual #4. Come at me, bruh! Waiting Laughing


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