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Batman007
Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:06:12 PM
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When the Art is the same except one is Black and White and one is Color we use Color Cover. Using an Artist's name or Character to ID the Cover will be redundant. If the Art were different then the Cover Descs would be something else.
sgriffin
Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:16:46 PM
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I added Color to the main issue to distinguish from the sketch cover. I agree the artist is somewhat redundant, but I know there are other covers coming (at least 1), so I left it.
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scotteaves
Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:56:17 PM
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Batman007 wrote:
When the Art is the same except one is Black and White and one is Color we use Color Cover. Using an Artist's name or Character to ID the Cover will be redundant. If the Art were different then the Cover Descs would be something else.


Well, then that needs to be in the Terminology list and not just some random decision. Thought that was the point of Standard Cover which reads "used to differentiate between the regular comic and the Variants. Should only be used on books with Variants".

Standard is the regular issue. Black and White OR Sketch is pretty obvious. Color Cover is just unnecessary when there are already terms that cover the situation.
Batman007
Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:30:46 PM
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Scott, we're working on it, worry not.
ntkeith
Saturday, January 17, 2009 8:23:09 PM
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I like what sgriffin did, REMEMBER, the Cover Description should be enough BY ITSELF to tell it apart from others. Assume the images are not there when you need to decide which is the right one, because some people work off of a printout list when shopping. I can't stress this one enough, it is my personal pet peeve. Make sure you guys get it on my tombstone, let it be what I am remembered for.
You've heard the legend, now see it come to life! I Want More Comics
scotteaves
Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:40:45 PM
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Batman007 wrote:
Scott, we're working on it, worry not.


Batman007 wrote:
We don't need to get that detailed. Black and White Cover is fine and contains a literal description of what's being Described anyways. I mean we could go on forever coming up with names for things and the Terminology List is long enough as it is. We've got the most common Terms listed on it so we'll be fine.


Hmm, changed your mind, eh? Winking

Not worried, just annoyed that another random change came around. It's not helping me or most others get data in correctly when these changes occur and not get documented.

(And it's not being discussed in the Lounge either so not sure where it's being worked on.)

ntkeith wrote:
I like what sgriffin did, REMEMBER, the Cover Description should be enough BY ITSELF to tell it apart from others. Assume the images are not there when you need to decide which is the right one, because some people work off of a printout list when shopping. I can't stress this one enough, it is my personal pet peeve. Make sure you guys get it on my tombstone, let it be what I am remembered for.


And if you went looking based on a list that said "Standard Cover" and found the one now listed as Color Cover, what would you do? Not pick it up because you might think it is something else? I completely understand the caption should be enough to tell them apart, but this seems a bit much when the terminology is already there to cover it.
comicscastle
Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:30:00 AM
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scotteaves wrote:
Batman007 wrote:
Scott, we're working on it, worry not.


Batman007 wrote:
We don't need to get that detailed. Black and White Cover is fine and contains a literal description of what's being Described anyways. I mean we could go on forever coming up with names for things and the Terminology List is long enough as it is. We've got the most common Terms listed on it so we'll be fine.


Hmm, changed your mind, eh? Winking

Not worried, just annoyed that another random change came around. It's not helping me or most others get data in correctly when these changes occur and not get documented.

(And it's not being discussed in the Lounge either so not sure where it's being worked on.)

ntkeith wrote:
I like what sgriffin did, REMEMBER, the Cover Description should be enough BY ITSELF to tell it apart from others. Assume the images are not there when you need to decide which is the right one, because some people work off of a printout list when shopping. I can't stress this one enough, it is my personal pet peeve. Make sure you guys get it on my tombstone, let it be what I am remembered for.


And if you went looking based on a list that said "Standard Cover" and found the one now listed as Color Cover, what would you do? Not pick it up because you might think it is something else? I completely understand the caption should be enough to tell them apart, but this seems a bit much when the terminology is already there to cover it.

I agree that STANDARD COVER should be used here, but I'm basing that on only seeing two covers. If the third cover is also a "standard cover" then I might change my mind. I really don't see how COLOR COVER describes the book any better than saying STANDARD COVER.


The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
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Batman007
Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:02:14 AM
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scotteaves wrote:

Hmm, changed your mind, eh? Winking


Not at all, we're talking about two different things. The X-Men Noir Black and White Covers aren't the same Art as the Color Cover, they're completely different images whereas the Locke And Key Issue had the same art for both the Black and White and the Color Covers.

I was under the impression that Standard Edition applied when there was some kind enhanced Cover (ie Foil, Hologram, Gatefold, etc.) with a price increase or incentive ratio vs the same art but un-enhanced.
scotteaves
Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:09:46 PM
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Batman007 wrote:
scotteaves wrote:

Hmm, changed your mind, eh? Winking


Not at all, we're talking about two different things. The X-Men Noir Black and White Covers aren't the same Art as the Color Cover, they're completely different images whereas the Locke And Key Issue had the same art for both the Black and White and the Color Covers.

I was under the impression that Standard Edition applied when there was some kind enhanced Cover (ie Foil, Hologram, Gatefold, etc.) with a price increase or incentive ratio vs the same art but un-enhanced.


Batman007 wrote:
I mean we could go on forever coming up with names for things and the Terminology List is long enough as it is. We've got the most common Terms listed on it so we'll be fine.


intent was to target this part of your quote more than anything...
Batman007
Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:43:35 PM
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I get it.

Let's castle come up with his final list and then I'm going to jump in and assist with the order of terms and then we'll Add/Edit to it all as the community sees fit. Believe me, between him and I (we've PMed a bunch about this) and all of the Requests on this thread, we've got a huge list. Like I said, worry not, we'll get there soon.
comicscastle
Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:17:25 PM
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Batman007 wrote:
I get it.

Let's castle come up with his final list and then I'm going to jump in and assist with the order of terms and then we'll Add/Edit to it all as the community sees fit. Believe me, between him and I (we've PMed a bunch about this) and all of the Requests on this thread, we've got a huge list. Like I said, worry not, we'll get there soon.

Bats and I will be tackling this soon. One of the things I/we are waiting for is a list of terms for other items than comics. If you and Keith can give us a list of terms for the cards it would be a huge help. You can send them to me by PM or post them in the Terminology thread. The same with Action Figures, Statues and Original art. We don't want to do this any more than we have to because it is very time consuming. Thanks fo any help you can provide.


The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-AKA Pat McCauslin
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scotteaves
Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:07:29 PM
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Fair enough.

I know Keith has a bunch of card stuff down already. I'll ping him to see where I can help him out with it.
scotteaves
Monday, January 19, 2009 11:10:07 PM
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As far as cards go - most of the terminology doesn't apply to the Cover Desc / Caption field. Seems like a large majority(95%+) goes in the Title. Do you still want it for this purpose?
comicscastle
Monday, January 19, 2009 11:45:49 PM
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Give me anything you have, and we'll place it as need, where needed. If it's the way we want something worded then we want it.


The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-AKA Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Comic Cellar--Hall of Heroes--Swifty's Olde Tyme Comic Shoppe


Batman007
Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:06:33 AM
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scotteaves wrote:
As far as cards go - most of the terminology doesn't apply to the Cover Desc / Caption field. Seems like a large majority(95%+) goes in the Title. Do you still want it for this purpose?


That's exactly why we need it. Definitely send it on over and we'll compile it into castle's master list.
scotteaves
Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:58:17 PM
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Here's our shot at Trading Card Terminology. Most of the Terms will apply to the Title (usually chase card subsets)- but since the Title should use the actual name provided by the manufacturer for the subset the terms may not always apply.

Terms

[Color/Description] Foil - Any card with a foil. Typical colors include Gold, Silver, Bronze and Rainbow for when it is multiple colored. Etched, Mirrored, Refractor, or Chromium are examples of descriptions.

Hologram - Any card with a holographic image as a main item, not as a authenticity mark on the reverse of the card (i.e. Upper Deck cards, where the UD logo is a hologram)

Lenticular - Cards with a lenticular lens and when viewed at different angles, create a "motion" effect.

(Animation) Cel - Plastic cards that provide a see-thru portion (all or some) of the card. Some may be reproductions of Animation cels from animated cartoons or movies.

Die-Cut – Card has either holes cut in it or is cut in a shape other than a standard card.

Case Topper/Case Loader – Card is included with the purchase of a case of cards. Topper is preferred and Loader should be used if the item reflects that, either printed on item, or by checklist/advert produced by manufacturer.

Box Topper/Box Loader – Card is included with the purchase of a box of cards. Topper is preferred and Loader should be used if the item reflects that, either printed on item, or by checklist/advert produced by manufacturer.

Parallel - May have description of color or type in front of the term Parallel. Cards are exact images of the standard set/subset, but have an addition to them. They may have a foil stamp on them, be numbered, or be a different color foil. Examples are: First Day of Issue Parallel, Blue Foil Parallel, Refractor Chromium Foil Parallel.

Additional Trading Card Specific Items

Item Bio - It is desired to have the back of the card entered here, ignoring any copywrite information. Anything that is the title of the card is optional, and can generally be included in the Cover Description field. Anything being copied from the back of the card should be encapsulated between asterisks (*) to denote direct quotation, and should be followed with "Source: Back of card". Additional information is encouraged, like specifics of the artwork, availability of the cards such as distributions means, and noting any mistake made on the card.

Variant Print Runs - unlike comics, this information is generally contained in the Title Description, not with each card.
ntkeith
Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:07:14 AM
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We hit a new one today, and this came down from Valiant on a change request...

Foldout Cover used for covers that fold out, but the fold out does not contain additional artwork from the cover.

Think of all the Marvel comics from the mid 90's where they folded out for a plot catchup and character shots. Ka-Zar (Vol 3) is where this came from, and shows a difference between Foldout and Gatefold.
You've heard the legend, now see it come to life! I Want More Comics
comicscastle
Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:38:39 AM
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scotteaves wrote:
Here's our shot at Trading Card Terminology. Most of the Terms will apply to the Title (usually chase card subsets)- but since the Title should use the actual name provided by the manufacturer for the subset the terms may not always apply.

Terms

[Color/Description] Foil - Any card with a foil. Typical colors include Gold, Silver, Bronze and Rainbow for when it is multiple colored. Etched, Mirrored, Refractor, or Chromium are examples of descriptions.

Hologram - Any card with a holographic image as a main item, not as a authenticity mark on the reverse of the card (i.e. Upper Deck cards, where the UD logo is a hologram)

Lenticular - Cards with a lenticular lens and when viewed at different angles, create a "motion" effect.

(Animation) Cel - Plastic cards that provide a see-thru portion (all or some) of the card. Some may be reproductions of Animation cels from animated cartoons or movies.

Die-Cut – Card has either holes cut in it or is cut in a shape other than a standard card.

Case Topper/Case Loader – Card is included with the purchase of a case of cards.

Box Topper/Box Loader – Card is included with the purchase of a box of cards.

Additional Trading Card Specific Items

Item Bio - It is desired to have the back of the card entered here, ignoring any copywrite information. Anything that is the title of the card is optional, and can generally be included in the Cover Description field. Anything being copied from the back of the card should be encapsulated between asterisks (*) to denote direct quotation, and should be followed with "Source: Back of card". Additional information is encouraged, like specifics of the artwork, availability of the cards such as distributions means, and noting any mistake made on the card.

Variant Print Runs - unlike comics, this information is generally contained in the Title Description, not with each card.

Thanks, I'll leave this up for comments before adding it to the list. One question on the Case Topper/Case Loader and Box Topper/Box Loader. Is that how you list it, with both names and a /, or do you use one or the other? If you use one or the other can we settle on just one for the sake of consistancy?


The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-AKA Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Comic Cellar--Hall of Heroes--Swifty's Olde Tyme Comic Shoppe


ntkeith
Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:50:58 AM
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I agree, I've seen Case Topper more often, and we have that in the DB. I say we can follow that one. Same for Box Topper.
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SwiftMann
Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:00:16 AM
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ntkeith wrote:
We hit a new one today, and this came down from Valiant on a change request...

Foldout Cover used for covers that fold out, but the fold out does not contain additional artwork from the cover.

Think of all the Marvel comics from the mid 90's where they folded out for a plot catchup and character shots. Ka-Zar (Vol 3) is where this came from, and shows a difference between Foldout and Gatefold.


Was this discussed in the forums?

Adding "Foldout Cover" to every Marvel comic for three years seems completely ridiculous and unnecessary to me.
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