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Comics Book Ads vs Solicitation Dates (Newstand)...

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DocRx8482
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:07:20 PM
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Just wanted to check....Most of the recent sales dates I have used are from internal comic book ads (i.e within the pages of DC Comics 50's,60's and early 70's). To me this is viable data, so I'm using it. If someone things otherwise, please voice up so that I know your opinion. Also DC used a 1/2 to one page display in 60's & early 70's issues called Direct Currents. One another note..If someone knows where we can find pre-1974 data resources for sales date on marvel books please let me know.

Thanks.
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scotteaves
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:49:13 PM
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My concern with using dates printed in ads is that if the date changes, the date in the ad is wrong.

I can think of quite a number of comics (not DC and much more recent) with ads in them touting a date that is never met.
comicscastle
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:11:10 PM
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I know from buying comics off the racks in the 50's 60's and on that the dates in the DC books are good. I can't ever remember an issue that didn't come out on the date stated. In those days new books came out on Tuesday & Thursday.


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jasonrvs
Friday, April 29, 2011 6:57:41 PM
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comicscastle wrote:
I know from buying comics off the racks in the 50's 60's and on that the dates in the DC books are good. I can't ever remember an issue that didn't come out on the date stated. In those days new books came out on Tuesday & Thursday.
I'm inclined to take Pat's word on this one. Even if 1% or so were delayed a few days, there's no way we could ever get more accurate dates on comics from this era, so I'm fine with using it. I definitely would NOT use in-comic ads for more recent comics, however.
padreglcc
Sunday, May 01, 2011 1:03:06 PM
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jasonrvs wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
I know from buying comics off the racks in the 50's 60's and on that the dates in the DC books are good. I can't ever remember an issue that didn't come out on the date stated. In those days new books came out on Tuesday & Thursday.
I'm inclined to take Pat's word on this one. Even if 1% or so were delayed a few days, there's no way we could ever get more accurate dates on comics from this era, so I'm fine with using it. I definitely would NOT use in-comic ads for more recent comics, however.

Stuff from publishers like Image and Aspen is chronically late, even when they do bother to put release dates in ads.

Yeah, I agree with Pat... fine for the older stuff, but not for modern.
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Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:30:55 AM
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I agree with Pat good for older stuff, not newer.
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DocRx8482
Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:25:21 PM
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Been a year since I first posted this. Just wanted to pop up the reminder of where and why I use the refernces I do for the pre-1980 DC books.
"Head to the future,
Run from the past,
Hide from the mirror,
And live in a glass,
What dreams forget the whiskey remembers
" (Eric Church/Marv Green)
DocRx8482
Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:37:23 AM
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Just needed to refresh this. It would seem that different approvers have different ideas on the newstand date. Some of my submissions on pre-1980 DC issues are having the newstand date removed when I submit them.

V/R
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Hide from the mirror,
And live in a glass,
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comicscastle wrote:
I know from buying comics off the racks in the 50's 60's and on that the dates in the DC books are good. I can't ever remember an issue that didn't come out on the date stated. In those days new books came out on Tuesday & Thursday.


I saw an interview somewhere with one of Marvel's old brass, talking about fill-in issues (a new release that had reprinted material, or was a stock story that didn't fit with current chronology). He said these were important to use because it was absolutely imperative that a new book met it's scheduled time at the printer. Those printing dates were scheduled out months in advance, so if a book was late to the printer, it just wouldn't get printed. You'd have to wait until the following month for the next print date on that title. Which would be extremely problematic when books are predominately sold on the newsstand. It's not like today where a book can be late, and then just be printed the next week.
outcast
Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:02:31 PM
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If I were designing a database for storing data about comics, I would probably implement two release date values: release date (projected) and release date (actual). For more recent comics, both dates might be available, and would often be identical; for older comics, probably only the former would be available (if that). Trying to use one field for both values is just going to confuse users.
Tamwood
Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:21:12 PM
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Who cares about projected release dates? We don't add new books to the database until the week before they're released, so it doesn't matter if a book is "projected" to release on 5/5/14 and doesn't release until 5/5/15. It won't be entered until that first week of May 2015, regardless.

As for older issues, we already have enough empty spots in the listings, due to a lack of resources for older issues. A third release date (publish/projected/actual) slot would be a waste of time, space and data.
scotteaves
Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:47:18 PM
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outcast wrote:
If I were designing a database for storing data about comics, I would probably implement two release date values: release date (projected) and release date (actual). For more recent comics, both dates might be available, and would often be identical; for older comics, probably only the former would be available (if that). Trying to use one field for both values is just going to confuse users.


No one is trying to use a "projected" release date. Why would you even bring up something so silly as a "projected" release date? So we can see how far behind Aspen really ships their comics??
SwiftMann
Saturday, July 06, 2013 9:48:30 PM
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outcast wrote:
Trying to use one field for both values is just going to confuse users.

Then let's make it clear for those that are somehow confused by the idea of the Sales Date field (which I personally think is nobody).

For books up until the mid 1980s, it was long ago agreed that the sale date in other comics (which aren't far off projections, but the comics that came out the same month or sometimes week) is fine to use in the Sales Date field because most hit those dates and there's nothing better to use for the folks that want to add that info.

For books from the mid 1990s and up, it's the date the books went up for sale at shops. This is easily documented thanks to the ol' Internets and various sources for the information.

And for the mid-80s to the mid-90s, those fields should be left blank since there's no reliable information in the age of incredibly late books.
Xylob
Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:00:33 AM
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Sources should always be referenced in the CR when adding such data for items that are so old.
Just adding a date in and not providing any kind of source data? Opposite of helpful.
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Atilla2k
Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:31:19 AM
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scotteaves wrote:
No one is trying to use a "projected" release date. Why would you even bring up something so silly as a "projected" release date? So we can see how far behind Aspen really ships their comics??


It’s an insanely absurd idea! Also Aspen is soooooooo bad with release dates it makes me feel like Image is on-time & reliable, lol!

Xylob wrote:
Sources should always be referenced in the CR when adding such data for items that are so old.
Just adding a date in and not providing any kind of source data? Opposite of helpful.


Yeah, people who don't source their info (i.e.-Links) NEED to!Big Grin
Xylob
Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:24:54 AM
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Atilla2k wrote:
...Aspen is soooooooo bad with release dates it makes me feel like Image is on-time & reliable, lol!...
I take it you're not collecting Supreme!
June, August, December, January, never.........
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Atilla2k
Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:39:07 AM
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Ha! Believe me I know, I'm still waiting for them to finish Clockmaker, lol!
outcast
Sunday, July 07, 2013 6:51:51 PM
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scotteaves wrote:
No one is trying to use a "projected" release date. Why would you even bring up something so silly as a "projected" release date? So we can see how far behind Aspen really ships their comics??
As you yourself pointed out upthread (two years ago, yes, but in this thread), people have cited and continue to cite on-sale dates from ads in comics published decades ago. These are the dates that I would put in a release date (projected) column. Why would I do this? Because from a data design perspective, putting two different kinds of data into one column is not a best practice.
outcast
Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:01:48 PM
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SwiftMann wrote:
Then let's make it clear for those that are somehow confused by the idea of the Sales Date field (which I personally think is nobody).

For books up until the mid 1980s, it was long ago agreed that the sale date in other comics (which aren't far off projections, but the comics that came out the same month or sometimes week) is fine to use in the Sales Date field because most hit those dates and there's nothing better to use for the folks that want to add that info.

For books from the mid 1990s and up, it's the date the books went up for sale at shops. This is easily documented thanks to the ol' Internets and various sources for the information.

And for the mid-80s to the mid-90s, those fields should be left blank since there's no reliable information in the age of incredibly late books.
Thanks for this explanation. I was not aware of the various shadings of meaning (probably my fault for not closely studying the site's data rules).

I'm not sure I would reach the same conclusion you have regarding reliable information on street dates of comics published from the mid-80s through mid-90s. While I don't dispute that such information is not widely available, there is probably a dealer somewhere who has saved every invoice since opening a store ca. 1981. With such invoices as a primary source, a researcher could conceivably come up with street dates for the overwhelming majority of comics issues published since the advent of direct-sales comics shops.

I wonder if the federal government would fund such research...?
Xylob
Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:45:41 PM
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http://www.comiclistdatabase.com used to have extensive information on release dates, but the site is basically dead & broken now.
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