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Where do unsold Newstand Editions go? Options
scotteaves
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:38:32 PM

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LadyJay wrote:
scotteaves wrote:

Quote:
I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.

Quote:
A scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Coming up with a simple program and plan to assign a few numbers along with printing a few stickers shouldn't stump the computer geniuses here. You gotta have faith that we have competent people at the helm that can make things happen.


You're right - the scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Go buy a POS software that supports custom barcodes if you want that because you won't see that in CCL. If that actually ever does happen, the intent will be to read an issue's barcode and most likely add the issue to a user's collection. As many other folks have said, this is a collecting DATABASE with a secondary function of allowing sales. What you're asking for isn't a function of a collecting database.


Gotta disagree here Scott, the software I use to catalog my collection already provides this function.


Creating custom barcodes?

SwiftMann
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:46:57 PM

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monidaw1 wrote:
Quote:
1) Online cataloguing solution OR MAC Compatibility (Online could include iPad application or the ability to access CCL date anywhere from any online source.)


AHH!! Now I see where how you've come up with this idea that the software is going away anytime soon*. CCL isn't getting rid of the software. They want a way to allow for online access to your catalog which would double as a way for Mac users to play along. The software will still be required to sell.



*Soon would require any actual update on any list anywhere to happen. Which it's not. Plus, that was Steve's list from 10 months ago, not necessarily CCL's list or what's priority now.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
LadyJay
Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:27:46 PM

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scotteaves wrote:
LadyJay wrote:
scotteaves wrote:

Quote:
I don't believe the bar code functionality proposed by CCL includes the capability to generate or read custom UPCs - I'm pretty sure its intent is to read those assigned and printed by the publishers.

Quote:
A scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Coming up with a simple program and plan to assign a few numbers along with printing a few stickers shouldn't stump the computer geniuses here. You gotta have faith that we have competent people at the helm that can make things happen.


You're right - the scanner doesn't care where the code is placed or by who. Go buy a POS software that supports custom barcodes if you want that because you won't see that in CCL. If that actually ever does happen, the intent will be to read an issue's barcode and most likely add the issue to a user's collection. As many other folks have said, this is a collecting DATABASE with a secondary function of allowing sales. What you're asking for isn't a function of a collecting database.


Gotta disagree here Scott, the software I use to catalog my collection already provides this function.


Creating custom barcodes?
There's a UPC field that I can change if I choose. There's not much need to if it's already filled in.



monidaw1
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:15:24 AM

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Quote:
AHH!! Now I see where how you've come up with this idea that the software is going away anytime soon*. CCL isn't getting rid of the software. They want a way to allow for online access to your catalog which would double as a way for Mac users to play along. The software will still be required to sell.



*Soon would require any actual update on any list anywhere to happen. Which it's not. Plus, that was Steve's list from 10 months ago, not necessarily CCL's list or what's priority now.


Steve's list from 10 months ago alone wouldn't have me worried. But since he's CCL's equivelent of Thor or Loki depending on your point or view and with no chance of CEO Odin coming out of his office to speak to us little people foreseeable, I do tend to give his list a little weight and at the very least can count it as a reference to these things being a goal. Combine that list which we have reasonible expectation that they SHOULD be working towards accomplishing, with being told they HAVE accomplished aspects they aren't making known publically like the ability to alter prices in a range now and you have to assume a lot of this is going to tie in to the implementation of the softwareless system which seems to be the only way to get rid of a huge number of glitches while providing us a way to access our catologes from multiple sources which has given me fits all year trying to accomplish unsuccessfully, to expanding the ability of individuals wanting to have seperate accounts for seperate collections catologed even though they may only have one computer. An easy example of that would be the parent with two kids and maybe dad has a box or six in his closet also. Now you potentially have 3 yearly fee's getting paid where before you could only have had one.

Another very valid reason for wanting this aspect for some of us is for insurance purposes. The detailed catologing of our comics for purposes of claims if something horrible happens (and I've got enough books with singed edges to know that it does sadly Sad ) I was told directly by my insurance company that I had to list the stores items to be covered by a commercial policy and that the personnel collection would be covered under the renters insurance if it was catologued. (Yet another reason for CCL to double up on the yearly fee's once it's an option) I'm sure there are ways we can go to extra effort to identify a few newsstands here and there and show them seperately but for simple ease of use it makes sense to let a few in where rarity leading to higher value can be shown (or disproved if the ability to seperate the data does so)

Now because CCL makes no distinction so far between the Direct Editions and Newsstand Editions for this issue which we've already provided verifiable external links to show this falls into the time frame where only 1.5 of every 10 could be Newsstand Editions and common sense says less than that should still be in high grade condition, I had no way of knowing it may be more valuable and sold a copy for $2.75 last night.

Denver says $45. Angry

No matter how much we feel Denver is overcharging, I think it's safe to assume it should have gone for more than $2.75 here putting more into the CCL coffers. If the new owner wants to list it on their insurance policy don't you think they'd like to list it at a higher number since it may cost more to replace if something happens? If as a database we collect a seperate source of data to show (or disprove) that it is wouldn't it make the claim for replacement cost more valid? Surf the sales figures and stats CCL collects from past sales.

That's just one more of a long list of little reasons to allow a few in gradually. Call them Newsstand Edition/Value Variants in the caption if you want. I have no desire to dump them all in at once and have enough data to show there is no real difference in value/qty availible for many of the 80's issues. Use the power of the database for good. If it's true the data will collect to validate it. If Denver's full of it, the data will collect to show that. For my own best interest, it seems the logical thing would be to try out some of those alternative database/retail sites. Maybe move all the newsstands, even the one's already distinguished, to a new seperate store and name the store something simple like "Newsstand Editions". That solves the problem from a singular perspective and the not having all the eggs in a single basket thing doesn't sound like a bad idea either, especially if you manage to convince me the CCL staff is incapable of accomplishing their own printed goals.


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SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:36:45 AM

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monidaw1 wrote:
Another very valid reason for wanting this aspect for some of us is for insurance purposes. The detailed catologing of our comics for purposes of claims if something horrible happens (and I've got enough books with singed edges to know that it does sadly Sad ) I was told directly by my insurance company that I had to list the stores items to be covered by a commercial policy and that the personnel collection would be covered under the renters insurance if it was catologued. (Yet another reason for CCL to double up on the yearly fee's once it's an option) I'm sure there are ways we can go to extra effort to identify a few newsstands here and there and show them seperately but for simple ease of use it makes sense to let a few in where rarity leading to higher value can be shown (or disproved if the ability to seperate the data does so)

Have you actually gotten quotes from your insurance agent? I have an insurance policy on my comics under a personal property policy. I decided to just have $25,000 of coverage because it costs too much to fully cover the entire collection. So, once my coverage was selected, I used CCL's reports to get $25,000 of cover prices. Worked for State Farm. It's not like they are going to buy each one back, they just cut you a check.

My point being, you very likely don't need to have every last issue cataloged for insurance purposes because the cost of insuring the entire collection is astronomical.

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monidaw1
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:23:40 AM

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Quote:
Have you actually gotten quotes from your insurance agent?


Farm Bureau here quoted the renters insurance without the comics included until we can provide a verifiable list which the current software would have provided but since it has the store inventory on it and no ability to handle two sets of software, no way to have both. That's one of the things I'm excited about and hoping the new online softwareless stuff solves allowing us to use multiple registrations to have multiple collections through a single computer access. I'm also hoping they work in some categorys for including items in our individual collections that want show up across the spectrum so we can include items CCL doesn't want included in the master list universally ( plus maybe I can make my own X-Men title to assemble all of them in a single listing since they live in a single box since they're numerically sequential, but that's a different topic for a different day Wall )


It appears Now's Green Hornet is using the barcode on some defacing the art like those Spawns but without any difference in the paper that I can detect. I'm assuming the copy without the bar code is the direct edition. It looks like for issue one they actually put a blank white box on the directs but I stil need to check a few copys to verify.

Just checked the really high store and it appears the blank white boxes on some early isues are the directs and they have images of the newsstands with the barcodes in the box. The funny thing is they have the exact same price listed for both types which makes me think they have data showing equivelent quantities exist, if not also availible, which if true suggests they may only be trying to jack up and rob people for stuff they can show legitimate limited quantites of. Anyone familiar with Nows distribution percentages?

On the insurance aspect, I forgot to mention I also kinda like the idea that having the data online means if the house burns down and takes the comics with it, it probobably also took the computer but the important part survived and can be accessed for claim purposes. On the Phone

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Xylob
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:03:26 AM

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monidaw1 wrote:
Farm Bureau here quoted the renters insurance without the comics included until we can provide a verifiable list which the current software would have provided but since it has the store inventory on it and no ability to handle two sets of software, no way to have both. That's one of the things I'm excited about and hoping the new online softwareless stuff solves allowing us to use multiple registrations to have multiple collections through a single computer access....
You can absolutely do this now. There are several users who do.

monidaw1 wrote:
...I also kinda like the idea that having the data online means if the house burns down and takes the comics with it, it probobably also took the computer but the important part survived and can be accessed for claim purposes. On the Phone
I'm looking forward to this aspect as well, but I hope they implement the online storage as an opt-in instead of mandatory for use of the product. I'd prefer to keep my database on my own hardware (my ISP is less than spectacular) and use their storage as more of a back-up.

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betaswitch
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:30:30 AM

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I might be a little behind on this topic, but aren't there a few titles that have Newstand Editions listed as variants? I'm pretty sure I have a few titles in my collection that do.
SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:41:57 AM

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monidaw1 wrote:
Farm Bureau here quoted the renters insurance without the comics included until we can provide a verifiable list which the current software would have provided but since it has the store inventory on it and no ability to handle two sets of software, no way to have both.

A) The reports feature separates what is up for sale from what is cataloged. So, if you generally put items up for sale immediately (that is, don't leave them sitting in catalog), you can run the two reports and have independent lists.

B) Multiple users have two stores or a store and a personal collection. That's something that can be done now.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
Xylob
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:13:42 AM

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betaswitch wrote:
I might be a little behind on this topic, but aren't there a few titles that have Newstand Editions listed as variants? I'm pretty sure I have a few titles in my collection that do.
Yes, but these are generally special exceptions to the CCL Guidelines.

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G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
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yourplace2
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:16:45 AM

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betaswitch wrote:
I might be a little behind on this topic, but aren't there a few titles that have Newstand Editions listed as variants? I'm pretty sure I have a few titles in my collection that do.


Yes, you are correct, but not just a FEW, MANY!

Part of the points being made here is, the powers that be, will only add them if they feel like it.

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SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:24:40 AM

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yourplace2 wrote:
Part of the points being made here is, the powers that be, will only add them if they feel like it.

Wow. And that's why this conversation will never go anywhere. You (and this is more a royal "you" for the three main folks here) decided that things play out completely differently than they do and have zero problem spouting off completely inaccurate statements like this one.

Previously in this thread I made a summarized statement of what CCL has always allowed in the database:
Quote:
"Newsstand editions that have a) a different U.S. price and/or b) different cover art and/or c) different story content and/or d) different page quality have ALWAYS been allowed as letter variants."


This also jives with what's in the guidelines.
Quote:
Newstand Edition UPC vs. Direct Edition UPC - When all else is the same (cover, price, paper, quality, contents) CCL accepts only one entry as the standard issue UNLESS there is a clearly identifiable value difference in the secondary market value between Newsstand and Direct Editions.

And as pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no "clearly identifiable value difference" anywhere but milehigh, which is not a source of actual sales amounts.

There's nothing happening here based on when we "feel like it."

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
yourplace2
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:26:21 AM

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SwiftMann wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
Part of the points being made here is, the powers that be, will only add them if they feel like it.

Wow. And that's why this conversation will never go anywhere. You (and this is more a royal "you" for the three main folks here) decided that things play out completely differently than they do and have zero problem spouting off completely inaccurate statements like this one.

Previously in this thread I made a summarized statement of what CCL has always allowed in the database:
Quote:
"Newsstand editions that have a) a different U.S. price and/or b) different cover art and/or c) different story content and/or d) different page quality have ALWAYS been allowed as letter variants."


This also jives with what's in the guidelines.
Quote:
Newstand Edition UPC vs. Direct Edition UPC - When all else is the same (cover, price, paper, quality, contents) CCL accepts only one entry as the standard issue UNLESS there is a clearly identifiable value difference in the secondary market value between Newsstand and Direct Editions.

And as pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no "clearly identifiable value difference" anywhere but milehigh, which is not a source of actual sales amounts.

There's nothing happening here based on when we "feel like it."


That's also ANOTHER point we've been trying to make! You won't allow what we agree WOULD BRING THE IDENTIFYABLE REASONS FOR ALL TO SEE if you felt differently about separating them!

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monidaw1
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:28:30 AM

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Quote:
A) The reports feature separates what is up for sale from what is cataloged. So, if you generally put items up for sale immediately (that is, don't leave them sitting in catalog), you can run the two reports and have independent lists.

B) Multiple users have two stores or a store and a personal collection. That's something that can be done now.


If it had some way to take them out of site so you could keep loading books with no chance of confussion between what's upstairs and what's downstairs it might be useful but it sounds like anything catologued would still show up in the Sell Items tab which would mean having to take a slow annoying process and add steps to it like scrolling over titles that start with an earlier letter or picking through titles that the store is getting additions to and I already have in my collection. There's also the expectation of having the software blow up/lock up/ quit working entirely by the 160,000 range or sooner according to when it happened to Brett's. Hopefully the online stuff will be ready by the time I get into that range.



Quote:
And as pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no "clearly identifiable value difference" anywhere but milehigh, which is not a source of actual sales amounts.


Actually we've already established that there has been shown to be qty difference and that has been recognized here in other cover variants by things like 1:10 Cover and such implying that a comic with 9 more of Cover A than B makes B more valuable potentially. In this case we've provided links to easy establish a 1.4:10 Cover with actual book counts showing even less than that in higher grades. Once we get some more stats we may find 0.whatever:10 isn't uncommon for titles more recently. We've also mentioned Fee-bay listings and people going to conventions searching for these.

Quote:
which is not a source of actual sales amounts.

That's what a database is great at. Collect the data, prove the value or disprove the value. Let the data speak for itself. By ignoring it we just don't know. The results come back negative you can even come back in a year or two and invalidate the listings which even at CCL's present pace of getting things done, they should have their invalidation purge stuff figured out by then so they can be removed. It's already on their to do list.

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SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41:36 AM

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monidaw1 wrote:
Quote:
And as pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no "clearly identifiable value difference" anywhere but milehigh, which is not a source of actual sales amounts.


Actually we've already established that there has been shown to be qty difference and that has been recognized here in other cover variants by things like 1:10 Cover and such implying that a comic with 9 more of Cover A than B makes B more valuable potentially. In this case we've provided links to easy establish a 1.4:10 Cover with actual book counts showing even less than that in higher grades. Once we get some more stats we may find 0.whatever:10 isn't uncommon for titles more recently. We've also mentioned Fee-bay listings and people going to conventions searching for these.

1) Your collection based on your digging came up with a 1:10 ratio. That doesn't actually establish anything.
2) Even if it is 1:10, that doesn't automatically make them more valuable. There still has to be a demand.
3) eBay has a very small handful of newsstands for sale (about 15), even less actually sold (about 5) and most from one seller.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

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yourplace2
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:41:45 AM

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SwiftMann wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
Part of the points being made here is, the powers that be, will only add them if they feel like it.

Wow. And that's why this conversation will never go anywhere. You (and this is more a royal "you" for the three main folks here) decided that things play out completely differently than they do and have zero problem spouting off completely inaccurate statements like this one.

Previously in this thread I made a summarized statement of what CCL has always allowed in the database:
Quote:
"Newsstand editions that have a) a different U.S. price and/or b) different cover art and/or c) different story content and/or d) different page quality have ALWAYS been allowed as letter variants."


This also jives with what's in the guidelines.
Quote:
Newstand Edition UPC vs. Direct Edition UPC - When all else is the same (cover, price, paper, quality, contents) CCL accepts only one entry as the standard issue UNLESS there is a clearly identifiable value difference in the secondary market value between Newsstand and Direct Editions.

And as pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no "clearly identifiable value difference" anywhere but milehigh, which is not a source of actual sales amounts.

There's nothing happening here based on when we "feel like it."


Swiftman has made a note on the 2nd item here along the guidelines. Clearly there is a DIFFERENCE of FEELINGS about what is allowed or not by the APPROVERS, but facts are clearly shown here with these two DIFFERENT COVERS:




It is a fact that the covers are different. One has a bar code one does not.
It is a fact one is a NEWSTAND, on is not.
It is my opinion they should be kept listed separately, because of those two facts, and my belief that sales over time will prove that one will be scarcer and perhaps more valuable because of that. It is a fact I could be wrong about my belief, but only time will tell. It is SWIFTMAN's beleif and feeling I am wrong, and they should not be kept separate under the guidelines CCL has made. CCL can change there guidelines, that is a fact!

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SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:43:14 AM

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yourplace2 wrote:
That's also ANOTHER point we've been trying to make! You won't allow what we agree WOULD BRING THE IDENTIFYABLE REASONS FOR ALL TO SEE if you felt differently about separating them!


monidaw1 wrote:
Collect the data, prove the value or disprove the value. Let the data speak for itself. By ignoring it we just don't know. The results come back negative you can even come back in a year or two and invalidate the listings which even at CCL's present pace of getting things done, they should have their invalidation purge stuff figured out by then so they can be removed.


Am I reading these right? In order for you to prove that they should be listed separately, they need to be listed separately?

How about taking the newsstand editions that are in the database and comparing what they are actually selling for versus the directs. The handful I've compared have zero difference in what they've sold for. There are a couple sellers who currently have bumped up offer prices but those haven't actually sold.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:49:27 AM

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yourplace2 wrote:
Swiftman has made a note on the 2nd item here along the guidelines. Clearly there is a DIFFERENCE of FEELINGS about what is allowed or not by the APPROVERS

What is allowed or not is clearly written out. How is that a "difference of feeling"??


Quote:
but facts are clearly shown here with these two DIFFERENT COVERS:

[images removed]

It is a fact that the covers are different. One has a bar code one does not.
It is a fact one is a NEWSTAND, on is not.
It is my opinion they should be kept listed separately, because of those two facts, and my belief that sales over time will prove that one will be scarcer and perhaps more valuable because of that. It is a fact I could be wrong about my belief, but only time will tell. It is SWIFTMAN's beleif and feeling I am wrong, and they should not be kept separate under the guidelines CCL has made. CCL can change there guidelines, that is a fact!


A keen eye would note there is a July 2011 Needs Work request question this inclusion: This is just a newsstand edition of the second printing. Should it really be listed as a variant? No cover price difference. Is there a sizable secondary market value difference?

Also, this is a three year old comic. Over that time, the newsstand edition has sold for (somewhat) noticeably less than the direct. How much time should we wait to prove the point?

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

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yourplace2
Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:50:40 AM

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SwiftMann wrote:


How about taking the newsstand editions that are in the database and comparing what they are actually selling for versus the directs. The handful I've compared have zero difference in what they've sold for. There are a couple sellers who currently have bumped up offer prices but those haven't actually sold.


That's interesting. How do you know this? If the two are under one letter, what tells you one sold more than the other?

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SwiftMann
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yourplace2 wrote:
SwiftMann wrote:


How about taking the newsstand editions that are in the database and comparing what they are actually selling for versus the directs. The handful I've compared have zero difference in what they've sold for. There are a couple sellers who currently have bumped up offer prices but those haven't actually sold.


That's interesting. How do you know this? If the two are under one letter, what tells you one sold more than the other?

There are newsstands in the database that have different cover prices. Look at many Marvel titles from the 90s, particularly the X-books. That's what I'm comparing.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
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