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Where do unsold Newstand Editions go? Options
Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:17:34 PM

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outcast wrote:
Consider also how thin the current product tends to be. For $3, you can buy a comic that gives you ten minutes of reading pleasure, and a fraction of a story. Comics ca. 1980 were good for 25 minutes, often containing a whole story; comics ca. 1950 (with 48 interior pages and less advertising) were probably good for 45 minutes and three to six stories. It's not surprising that fans are the only audience now for this mode of entertainment.
sure, but now you're paying for quality over quantity...
Rolling on the Floor

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

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Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:23:44 PM

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monidaw1 wrote:
That's where I get lost at. It seems as simple as just letting people submit a variant here and there and captioning it Newsstand Edition. Then you've got the original listing and the Newsstand. Then those who want to ignore it get to ignore it and keep on listing the same way. One's who want the distinction will use it
this doesn't change the fact that the those who actively seek the newsies are an incredibly small minority and most sellers here have already admitted that they don't care one way or the other except for the fact that the disaster of having to de-list then relist all their comics will make them leave the site and sell elsewhere. alternatively there could be ZERO enforcement of listing correctly and people who consider the newsies to be the "inferior" product (most buyers by the way) would be p!ssed if they specifically bought because the seller had it listed as the direct version but was actually just too lazy to list it properly or refused to delist and relist. and it works both ways, the niche collector who wants that newsie buys a book here because it was incorrectly listed and gets the direct edition they don't want.
Nobody has provided even a glimmer of an idea as to how this should be handled other than "It seems as simple as...".
What is your solution that will satisfy:
All CCL sellers and all CCL customers?
Daydreaming
Everybody seems to have an awesome solution for their own side of the argument, but nobody gives a rat's rear about those who have a differing opinion.

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!

Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...
Thundercron
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:29:11 PM

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I've mentioned this solution before--a simple drop-down box in the"item details" page of each listing. The default is "none specified" (for those who don't want to participate), and the other options being "direct" and "newsstand." Easy.
outcast
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:54:00 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 414
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Xylob wrote:
.
.
.
alternatively there could be ZERO enforcement of listing correctly and people who consider the newsies to be the "inferior" product (most buyers by the way) would be p!ssed if they specifically bought because the seller had it listed as the direct version but was actually just too lazy to list it properly or refused to delist and relist. and it works both ways, the niche collector who wants that newsie buys a book here because it was incorrectly listed and gets the direct edition they don't want.
Nobody has provided even a glimmer of an idea as to how this should be handled other than "It seems as simple as...".
What is your solution that will satisfy:
All CCL sellers and all CCL customers?
Daydreaming
Everybody seems to have an awesome solution for their own side of the argument, but nobody gives a rat's rear about those who have a differing opinion.
I did try to address concerns regarding mis-identification of direct/newsstand versions in my first post to CCL forums, back in July. I acknowledged that many Internet sellers mis-identify direct-sales comics as newsstand versions. The way to make this easy for users is to have a cover scan of each version of each issue, with each cover scan identified as either newsstand or direct-sales. With such scans in place, a seller simply looks at the comic in hand, looks at the scans, sees which scan matches the comic in hand, and proceeds accordingly. There might need to be additional scans for comics with barcode on the back cover.

Since I don't know details about the CCL database schema, I have to accept your word that none of this is as easy as it sounds. I do accept that, but the lack of details leaves me without a basis for a more refined suggestion.
Jim
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 4:58:21 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
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It goes well beyond the db schema. There would also have to be an update to the API along with the Desktop software, mobile apps, and website. It's not simple.
outcast
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 5:16:39 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
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Okay, here's a wild idea:

I'll stipulate that implementing newsstands as variant issues is more complicated than I understand.

I'll add that, with only a few exceptions, titles with a newsstand presence tend to have that presence for many issues in a row, and titles with a direct-sales presence tend to have that presence for many issues in a row.

So, if adding variants at the issue level is not immediately achievable....

Would it be easier to add newsstand variants at the SERIES level?

In other words, where there is now "Uncanny X-Men (1981)" in the database, and where most cover scans in that series are direct-sales cover scans, could there be added a series named "Uncanny X-Men (1981; newsstand)," where only newsstand cover scans would be accepted, and where sellers with newsstand copies could offer those copies for sale at a premium?

This might require a conversion period, during which newsstand cover scans in the primary series would be replaced with direct-sales cover scans. In the end, though, sellers offering, and buyers preferring, newsstand versions would have a place where they could do business. And CCL's market statistics feature would track such sales without (unless I am missing something) any additional programming effort.
Jim
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 5:24:15 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
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The easiest thing to do would be to add them as a letter variant to the database. The software is designed to do this. But if the approvers don't want to add them then they aren't getting added. Tickling the software to add or note them in a different way is a waste of time IMO. There are bigger things that need to be fixed/implemented in the software.
outcast
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 5:35:20 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

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Jim wrote:
The easiest thing to do would be to add them as a letter variant to the database. The software is designed to do this. But if the approvers don't want to add them then they aren't getting added. Tickling the software to add or note them in a different way is a waste of time IMO. There are bigger things that need to be fixed/implemented in the software.
Well then, it seems I have fundamentally misunderstood the problem all along. If the "software is designed" in a way that would accommodate addition of newsstands as letter variants, then I am at a loss to understand why anyone is permitted to stand in the way of buyers and sellers wanting to conduct such commerce.
Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:24:13 PM

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outcast wrote:
The way to make this easy for users is to have a cover scan of each version of each issue, with each cover scan identified as either newsstand or direct-sales.
I seem to have misplaced my magic wand...
with so many issues already in the database with this:

for a cover image how does this scheme get implemented?

outcast wrote:
With such scans in place, a seller simply looks at the comic in hand, looks at the scans, sees which scan matches the comic in hand, and proceeds accordingly.
except for the fact that you can't teach 'give a damn' to the sellers

outcast wrote:
There might need to be additional scans for comics with barcode on the back cover.
as I was saying...


It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!

Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...
Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:28:37 PM

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Jim wrote:
...The software is designed to do this. But if the approvers don't want to add them then they aren't getting added.
That's not the issue.
I'm not the only approver (past or present) who would like to see newsies added as variants.
It wasn't the approvers who decided that for the purposes of the CCL software, newsies are not variants.
It is the approvers who are stuck enforcing that decision.
We are not in the position to dictate policy at CCL.

Generally, it's only criminals that hate the cops, why is it that everybody hates CCL approvers?

Jim wrote:
There are bigger things that need to be fixed/implemented in the software.
And then there's always that.

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!

Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...
yourplace2
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:05:08 PM

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Thundercron wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
Xylob wrote:
outcast wrote:
monidaw1 wrote:
I can see there being a shortage of high grade Newsstands from the 80's and feel free to blame me since I'm one of the one's who thumbed every corner of every book in every pouch on the spin rack trying to make sure I didn't miss any and even trying to hide a last copy of something in a less obvious spot until I could go walk a dog or cut some grass to get another 40 cent to buy it. Devil

Those spinner racks certainly weren't designed to preserve the comics in NM condition. I think minimization of floor space was the idea back then. Still, pleasant memories, huh?
I grew up in a small town too, but fortunately the Mini-Mart, 7-11, and local book store ("Books-A-Go-Go!") all had the comics on the stands similar to what B&N uses to display their magazines these days - my first comics are in pretty decent shape considering (no spinner rack fold damage!).

and don't get me wrong on the whole direct vs. newsie as variant issue - when I initially found and started using CCL it was the first thing I asked for. I was told that it was 'on the list' and that it was explained that it would be difficult to implement. After years of using the software/database and later becoming an approver I now appreciate exactly how much of a logistical nightmare it would be to get the newsies into the database as bona fide variants.
Wall
Frankly, this is something that should have been put in place from the beginning. At this point it's kinda like giving yourself another spleen and appendix.
You wouldn't happen to be a super duper ultra 1337 coder would you?


Those SPINNER racks are still being used. Go into your major grocery store chains that sell everything (books, movies, furnature, etc.) There is one there with comics.

Adding the NEWSTANDS should not be a major hardship or project. It should be a copy and paste, item per item as it comes up and is submitted, just like the variants are done today. Alot of the things I read today are coming out with 8-10 variant covers, some even more (WALKING DEAD #100 has 13 variants at least-guessing though). Stop thinking that to do this, you need to have many people doing it constantly minute by minute with researching all the possible comics with newstand covers. ADD THEM AS COLLECTORS FIND THEM. Only thing that is different is the price. It is way to easy!


Are you talking about the old school, metal spinner racks? I haven't seen those since the early 90's, so I'm surprised you say they are still being used--unless you're talking about the newer, wood and plastic racks some bookstores use. I'm fortunate to have found a circa early-1970s comic book rack on Craigslist for $75, so I can relive my memories daily.


I don't know how old they were, but I see em in my grocery stores. Black wire like swivel racks with comics on em. :)

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yourplace2
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:37:08 PM

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outcast wrote:
Jim wrote:
The easiest thing to do would be to add them as a letter variant to the database. The software is designed to do this. But if the approvers don't want to add them then they aren't getting added. Tickling the software to add or note them in a different way is a waste of time IMO. There are bigger things that need to be fixed/implemented in the software.
Well then, it seems I have fundamentally misunderstood the problem all along. If the "software is designed" in a way that would accommodate addition of newsstands as letter variants, then I am at a loss to understand why anyone is permitted to stand in the way of buyers and sellers wanting to conduct such commerce.


I agree. This is the practice right now with TRUE VARIANTS.

It seems that people here are in disagreement only of whether a newstand is a variant or not. Some say no, but others yes. I can't understand why they can't see it as a variant. If you take a comic and add gold foil over the title, and limit the quantity of them with that, why is that a true variant, but a title with a different price, and logo is not a true variant. Nerd

And another thought that's been coming up in my head from this discussion.
The PRINT COUNTS of the comic, do these include NEWSTANDS? I bet they do. I would not be surprised if we could discover that the newstands were run in much less quantities as well.

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comicscastle
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:55:38 PM

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If CCL changed their policy and allowed newsstand editions as variants they would lose money because many stores (like me) would close their store and go elsewhere. I have 45,000 books listed and I will not go back through each one to see if it's a direct sale copy or not. That is a complete waste of time. Imagine what the stores with 100,000 books listed would have to go through. I would rather spend that time listing my books on Atomic Avenue or eBay.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


comicscastle
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:57:14 PM

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yourplace2 wrote:
outcast wrote:
Jim wrote:
The easiest thing to do would be to add them as a letter variant to the database. The software is designed to do this. But if the approvers don't want to add them then they aren't getting added. Tickling the software to add or note them in a different way is a waste of time IMO. There are bigger things that need to be fixed/implemented in the software.
Well then, it seems I have fundamentally misunderstood the problem all along. If the "software is designed" in a way that would accommodate addition of newsstands as letter variants, then I am at a loss to understand why anyone is permitted to stand in the way of buyers and sellers wanting to conduct such commerce.


I agree. This is the practice right now with TRUE VARIANTS.

It seems that people here are in disagreement only of whether a newstand is a variant or not. Some say no, but others yes. I can't understand why they can't see it as a variant. If you take a comic and add gold foil over the title, and limit the quantity of them with that, why is that a true variant, but a title with a different price, and logo is not a true variant. Nerd

And another thought that's been coming up in my head from this discussion.
The PRINT COUNTS of the comic, do these include NEWSTANDS? I bet they do. I would not be surprised if we could discover that the newstands were run in much less quantities as well.
A different price is and always has been a variant.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:58:59 PM

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comicscastle wrote:
If CCL changed their policy and allowed newsstand editions as variants they would lose money because many stores (like me) would close their store and go elsewhere. I have 45,000 books listed and I will not go back through each one to see if it's a direct sale copy or not. That is a complete waste of time. Imagine what the stores with 100,000 books listed would have to go through. I would rather spend that time listing my books on Atomic Avenue or eBay.
Thanks for proving one of my points Pat. I know you are not the only seller here who feels this way, as others made similar if not identical in another thread.

Humor me on another if you will: if the database was set up with a (hypothetical) universally accepted way of identifying direct from news stand from the very beginning, would you have bothered to indicate which version each of your 45000 items were when you listed them?

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!

Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
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Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...
comicscastle
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:58:35 PM

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Xylob wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
If CCL changed their policy and allowed newsstand editions as variants they would lose money because many stores (like me) would close their store and go elsewhere. I have 45,000 books listed and I will not go back through each one to see if it's a direct sale copy or not. That is a complete waste of time. Imagine what the stores with 100,000 books listed would have to go through. I would rather spend that time listing my books on Atomic Avenue or eBay.
Thanks for proving one of my points Pat. I know you are not the only seller here who feels this way, as others made similar if not identical in another thread.

Humor me on another if you will: if the database was set up with a (hypothetical) universally accepted way of identifying direct from news stand from the very beginning, would you have bothered to indicate which version each of your 45000 items were when you listed them?
Yes. It's not hard to do as you are working on them, but a real pain after the fact. We have books listed now where the newsstand and direct books have different cover prices and are listed as variants. My listings show which I have. Same with Gold Key or Whitman. My sale prices would be the same because I've seen no difference in demand and I've been selling for 48 years.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


Xylob
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:53:08 PM

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comicscastle wrote:
Xylob wrote:
if the database was set up with a (hypothetical) universally accepted way of identifying direct from news stand from the very beginning, would you have bothered to indicate which version each of your 45000 items were when you listed them?
Yes. It's not hard to do as you are working on them
darn, disproved one of my points, but would all sellers care enough to bother? because...
comicscastle wrote:
My sale prices would be the same because I've seen no difference in demand and I've been selling for 48 years.
proved another of my points for me without my asking.
Big Hug

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!

Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...
LadyJay
Posted: Thursday, December 06, 2012 11:18:11 PM

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Xylob wrote:
comicscastle wrote:
If CCL changed their policy and allowed newsstand editions as variants they would lose money because many stores (like me) would close their store and go elsewhere. I have 45,000 books listed and I will not go back through each one to see if it's a direct sale copy or not. That is a complete waste of time. Imagine what the stores with 100,000 books listed would have to go through. I would rather spend that time listing my books on Atomic Avenue or eBay.
Thanks for proving one of my points Pat. I know you are not the only seller here who feels this way, as others made similar if not identical in another thread.


I was one of the sellers who said they would move on if CCL changed their policy on newsstands editions at this late date. I don't have a problem with the concept of newwtands being a disting variant, it actually makes sense to me and if that policy existed in the beginning my books would have been listed based as nesstand or direct. Having to change after the fact was a different matter; even with a much smaller inventory than Pat, going back through my listings to distinguish newsstand from direct wouldn't be worth the effort.

At this point it no longer matters to me. A different thread over the summer led me to researching the fee structures on other sites, which resulted in my making the move to AA.



monidaw1
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 4:29:32 AM

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Quote:
most sellers here have already admitted that they don't care one way or the other except for the fact that the disaster of having to de-list then relist all their comics will make them leave the site and sell elsewhere.




Quote:
If CCL changed their policy and allowed newsstand editions as variants they would lose money because many stores (like me) would close their store and go elsewhere. I have 45,000 books listed and I will not go back through each one to see if it's a direct sale copy or not. That is a complete waste of time. Imagine what the stores with 100,000 books listed would have to go through. I would rather spend that time listing my books on Atomic Avenue or eBay.


Quote:
Thanks for proving one of my points Pat. I know you are not the only seller here who feels this way, as others made similar if not identical in another thread.


Missed the point entirely. Shame on You

Noone has to delist anything or go back through any books. The listing as it is now, is ALREADY A BULK listing for Newsstand and Directs lumped together. The extra letter listing doesn't mean you have to do anything at all. If you want to go through and find a few to list then you can. If you find a few next week and want to list them there instead of in the original bulk listing you can or you can just keep right on doing things the way you always do. The only thing it changes is giving a those who want something a way to do it that has no affect negatively on your life and may actually improve it if it leads to other stores kicking extra revenue into the CCL coffers that may go to things you do partake in eventually even if it's just a little.


Quote:
My sale prices would be the same because I've seen no difference in demand and I've been selling for 48 years.


I don't have 48 years of experience, but I do get requests and any, even if it's just puts a few more dollars regularly into the bottom line can make a huge difference when your bottom lines has your truck sitting at a mechanic for months waiting on $400 worth or repairs while you struggle to pay off comic book debts first. Although I'd rather be totally loyal to CCL and do everything here, it's still stupid to list something for 60 cent that's going for $12+ elsewhere and could easily be E-Bay'd or such for $6. I don't have all those years of experience but I do have Christmas right around the corner and plenty of things a few extra dollars could help with.

I have no intention of going through 100,000 books and delisting lots of them. I'm only going to bother with the one's I get requests for or the one's that are clearly going for higher prices.

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comicscastle
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 5:59:34 AM

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monidaw1 wrote:


Missed the point entirely. Shame on You

Noone has to delist anything or go back through any books. The listing as it is now, is ALREADY A BULK listing for Newsstand and Directs lumped together. The extra letter listing doesn't mean you have to do anything at all. If you want to go through and find a few to list then you can. If you find a few next week and want to list them there instead of in the original bulk listing you can or you can just keep right on doing things the way you always do. The only thing it changes is giving a those who want something a way to do it that has no affect negatively on your life and may actually improve it if it leads to other stores kicking extra revenue into the CCL coffers that may go to things you do partake in eventually even if it's just a little.


No,you are. The "bulk" listing only stands as long as the two types aren't broken out. As soon as you list one as a variant (newsstand) the other (direct) becomes the main issue. To have accurate listings in your store you would need to check every one of your books and re-list them accordingly


Quote:
My sale prices would be the same because I've seen no difference in demand and I've been selling for 48 years.


monidaw1 wrote:

I have no intention of going through 100,000 books and delisting lots of them. I'm only going to bother with the one's I get requests for or the one's that are clearly going for higher prices.
I have only had a request to look for newsstand editions twice in 5 years on the site and I did both times, resulting in one sale. I will continue to check for anyone who asks. Supplying customer service and completely re-working my store are two different things.



The following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.
Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslin
Alpha Comics--ComicVortex--Metropolis Connections 2.0--Comic Cellar


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