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COUNTERFEIT COMICS
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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 Rank: Herald of Galactus Groups: Member
Joined: 6/22/2007 Posts: 1,913 Points: 5,645
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Woah, as soon as I saw this I ran and checked my Lethal Protector #1. Its real though
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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UPDATE - 15 May 2008Cry For Dawn #1 counterfeit issue has been added to the list with detection details. I still haven't been able to find a photo of the Batman #497 counterfeit and I swear to God I'm going to get around to editing those TMNT images soon
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 Rank: Herald of Galactus Groups: Member
Joined: 9/2/2007 Posts: 1,943 Points: 93,328 Location: North Carolina
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you will not
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 Rank: Administration Groups: CCL Feature Crew, Forum Admin, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 6/7/2007 Posts: 4,554 Points: 125,950
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There has been something that has popped up and come to my attention in the last month or so that I haven't had time to investigate much into, and I call upon the CCL community for help. THOR #1 Gold 1:1000 VariantJoe and I saw a copy of this book as well as a World War Hulk #1 Gold Edition at one of the cons that we attended. I'm beginning to think these are forgeries, and I'm asking you guys to help me with this. We need to let people know they are fake if they see them. Has there been an article about these Gold Issues written somewhere... perhaps in a Wizard or a press release from Marvel? There are 68 people on CCL who have this book added to their wishlist. We KNOW they exist, we have seen them. But we need to know if these are forgeries. Thanks!
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 Rank: Sidekick Groups: Member
Joined: 5/19/2008 Posts: 58 Points: 174 Location: Texas
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Gobbledygook, I've seen it on Ebay. Its a fake. Watch out if you're on Ebay.
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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GhostBlood wrote:Gobbledygook, I've seen it on Ebay. Its a fake. Watch out if you're on Ebay. These are real books. Don't think that every issue you see is a counterfeit. The counterfeits that have been made (despite what CGC claims) are easy to detect. They just refuse to grade them now because with new technology they'll become easier to fake and harder to detect, but like I said, the ones already made are easy. I've even given scans of an actual copy compaired to the counterfeit. The one you're referring to on eBay, that same one that has been discussed at the Collector Society forums, may or may not be real. This is the problem with it: The only conclusive way to determing the black cover counterfeits is the interior art work. If they have darkened art or they are signed and numbered inside, they are fakes. PGX was unaware of this when that book was first graded, so unless the seller is willing to crack his seal to show the inside, I would aviod it, but it still may be real. If you're referring to the Charles Costas fakes that sold on eBay a few years ago, (these also seem to be discussed in many different forums) they were the yellow cover counterfeits. These were the first copies he ever saw so he didn't know if they were real or not. He wrote Kevin Eastman personally to get information on the counterfeits, the same information I've provided here. So, to detect the Gobbledygook counterfeits: Yellow Covers, Black Covers with darkened interior arts and any signed AND NUMBERED issue are all counterfeits. They are real ones out there, just very few.
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 Rank: Eternal Groups: Member
Joined: 3/11/2007 Posts: 365 Points: 1,095 Location: NC
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Im kind of surprised counterfeitting isnt more common. If theives can do money... then they can do newsprint, it stands to reason.
Maybe I'd be interested in having a couple..
Maybe I'll take Stan Lee and Jim Shooter and the former head of shippin and recieving to find that lost holy grail warehouse where they are sitting on pallates upon pallates of high grade vintage key silver age books.
****no, of course I wont do that... but I'd sure like to make that find of a warehouse.
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 3/18/2007 Posts: 3,680 Points: 11,005 Location: PA
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The_Valiant_One wrote:There has been something that has popped up and come to my attention in the last month or so that I haven't had time to investigate much into, and I call upon the CCL community for help. THOR #1 Gold 1:1000 VariantJoe and I saw a copy of this book as well as a World War Hulk #1 Gold Edition at one of the cons that we attended. I'm beginning to think these are forgeries, and I'm asking you guys to help me with this. We need to let people know they are fake if they see them. Has there been an article about these Gold Issues written somewhere... perhaps in a Wizard or a press release from Marvel? There are 68 people on CCL who have this book added to their wishlist. We KNOW they exist, we have seen them. But we need to know if these are forgeries. Thanks! I have heard about them, but have never heard if they were real or not. Sorry I can't help, I would be interested in knowing about this issue as well.
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 Rank: Administration Groups: CCL Feature Crew, Forum Admin, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 6/7/2007 Posts: 4,554 Points: 125,950
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The main question is: Is the Thor #1 Gold Edition a valid produced and marketed by MARVEL product? I know it exists - I've seen it, so I can't question that fact. In the same way I have seen a GOLD EDITION World War Hulk #1 exists. I think these were fabricated by someone else and SOLD to the public as incentives or ULTRA RARE INCENTIVES. I mean, seriously...a 1/1000 variant? Since when has Marvel tried a stunt like this?
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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I e-mailed marvel and left them a message on their customer service voicemail but have not had a responce yet. I will try again later this afternoon.
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 Rank: Administration Groups: CCL Feature Crew, Forum Admin, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 6/7/2007 Posts: 4,554 Points: 125,950
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Spoke with Marvel's legal department today, and they are INDEED COUNTERFEIT - in fact, there are a total of 3 counterfeits floating around that Marvel can confirm with the Gold Foil: 1) THOR #1 2) WORLD WAR HULK #1 3) Incredible Hulk #104
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 Rank: Herald of Galactus Groups: Member
Joined: 3/22/2007 Posts: 2,372 Points: 525,814 Location: Gotham City
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Nice Detective work! Expunge that crap from the Database.
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 Rank: Beyonder Groups: Approver, CR-Management, Forum Admin, Grade My Book Host, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 1/30/2008 Posts: 14,034 Points: 391,671 Location: New Jersey
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Batman007 wrote:Nice Detective work! Expunge that crap from the Database. It is good work finding out they're counterfeit, but should they be removed? They are still comic books and they do exist. I think they should be included in the database but they should be listed as counterfeit in the cover description area. Something like "Counterfeit - Not Authorized by Marvel". What do the rest of you think?
35% off new book subscription service. Click HERE for details. Now with free bags & boards. Current CCL members and non-members who subscribe to my service: alarion, bigal06, ChrisP, comicsaddict1982, DaLeah96, dudley08, Dunleavy75, fatherjeff, FunnyBooksUSA, gdalton, geodarkknight, ilikecomics2, InhumanKing, JoeR, kevscomics, Kilroy10145, LennyC, LuizA, madchau, Mick77, mrbungle225, msarmie, Nick18313, nomedami, Philli, PilesOfComics, Reggie, russman70, scotteaves, sgriffin, shadowrider, ShenValleyInititative, sherlock_hemlock, skyw1se, Spider-Man, theaterrat, yakfaceThe following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslinAlpha Comics--Legends (Vol 2)--Metropolis Connections--Comic Cellar
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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comicscastle wrote:It is good work finding out they're counterfeit, but should they be removed? They are still comic books and they do exist. I think they should be included in the database but they should be listed as counterfeit in the cover description area. Something like "Counterfeit - Not Authorized by Marvel". What do the rest of you think? Absolutely they should be removed. That question is actually how this list started, I brought it up last year. Check out the link at the top of this page in my first post to read what Joe had to say about it.
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 Rank: Beyonder Groups: Approver, CR-Management, Forum Admin, Grade My Book Host, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 1/30/2008 Posts: 14,034 Points: 391,671 Location: New Jersey
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vacantpassenger wrote:comicscastle wrote:It is good work finding out they're counterfeit, but should they be removed? They are still comic books and they do exist. I think they should be included in the database but they should be listed as counterfeit in the cover description area. Something like "Counterfeit - Not Authorized by Marvel". What do the rest of you think? Absolutely they should be removed. That question is actually how this list started, I brought it up last year. Check out the link at the top of this page in my first post to read what Joe had to say about it. I don't see any link, but if Joe doesn't want them then that's fine with me; however I still feel that a comic database should include all comics, even counterfeit ones. I'm not saying that we should justify them in any way. I'm just saying that we should recognize that they do exist. Perhaps there should be a way that they could be entered in the database but not be made available to sell. Anyway that's just my opinion and it isn't anything I feel real strongly about so I won't go off on a rant or anything.
35% off new book subscription service. Click HERE for details. Now with free bags & boards. Current CCL members and non-members who subscribe to my service: alarion, bigal06, ChrisP, comicsaddict1982, DaLeah96, dudley08, Dunleavy75, fatherjeff, FunnyBooksUSA, gdalton, geodarkknight, ilikecomics2, InhumanKing, JoeR, kevscomics, Kilroy10145, LennyC, LuizA, madchau, Mick77, mrbungle225, msarmie, Nick18313, nomedami, Philli, PilesOfComics, Reggie, russman70, scotteaves, sgriffin, shadowrider, ShenValleyInititative, sherlock_hemlock, skyw1se, Spider-Man, theaterrat, yakfaceThe following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslinAlpha Comics--Legends (Vol 2)--Metropolis Connections--Comic Cellar
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2007 Posts: 2,984 Points: 45,396 Location: Long Island, NY
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The link says HERE in blue and is underlined, or just go here: http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6904&find=unreadDiscuss it there, why would I mind?
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 Rank: Beyonder Groups: Approver, CR-Management, Forum Admin, Grade My Book Host, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 1/30/2008 Posts: 14,034 Points: 391,671 Location: New Jersey
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OK, I found the link and I see it was well discused with Dale taking my view so I don't need to say more. Luckily I don't have any nor do I want any, but I feel sorry for the person who has one and can't add it to his collection because the database won't allow it.
35% off new book subscription service. Click HERE for details. Now with free bags & boards. Current CCL members and non-members who subscribe to my service: alarion, bigal06, ChrisP, comicsaddict1982, DaLeah96, dudley08, Dunleavy75, fatherjeff, FunnyBooksUSA, gdalton, geodarkknight, ilikecomics2, InhumanKing, JoeR, kevscomics, Kilroy10145, LennyC, LuizA, madchau, Mick77, mrbungle225, msarmie, Nick18313, nomedami, Philli, PilesOfComics, Reggie, russman70, scotteaves, sgriffin, shadowrider, ShenValleyInititative, sherlock_hemlock, skyw1se, Spider-Man, theaterrat, yakfaceThe following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslinAlpha Comics--Legends (Vol 2)--Metropolis Connections--Comic Cellar
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 Rank: Celestial Groups: Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 6/18/2007 Posts: 2,533 Points: 24,369 Location: Earth
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I agree with ComicsCastle, and Joe of CCL, that while the counterfeits should certainly not be available to buy or sell on CCL, and should not be acknowledged as legitimate, it still seems important to recognize that they exist and inform collectors to be careful. I understand that's the purpose of the sticky post this topic is under, but is that enough? Maybe it is, maybe it is not. By the the way, GOOD JOB! Thanks you guys, you know who you are, for finding out Marvel definately never produced these particular Variants, 1) THOR #1 1:1000 Gold 2) WORLD WAR HULK #1 1:1000 Gold 3) Incredible Hulk #104 1:1000 Gold you have done the leg work, so the rest of us know what to watch out for.
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 Rank: Beyonder Groups: Approver, CR-Management, Forum Admin, Grade My Book Host, Guru, Member, Super Seller
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Joined: 1/30/2008 Posts: 14,034 Points: 391,671 Location: New Jersey
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By the way, since Marvel never produced any of these they aren't technically counterfeits. They are unauthorized variants, but a counterfeit is a copy being passed off as the original. They still shouldn't be offered for sale, but it is different from a counterfeit on a technical scale.
35% off new book subscription service. Click HERE for details. Now with free bags & boards. Current CCL members and non-members who subscribe to my service: alarion, bigal06, ChrisP, comicsaddict1982, DaLeah96, dudley08, Dunleavy75, fatherjeff, FunnyBooksUSA, gdalton, geodarkknight, ilikecomics2, InhumanKing, JoeR, kevscomics, Kilroy10145, LennyC, LuizA, madchau, Mick77, mrbungle225, msarmie, Nick18313, nomedami, Philli, PilesOfComics, Reggie, russman70, scotteaves, sgriffin, shadowrider, ShenValleyInititative, sherlock_hemlock, skyw1se, Spider-Man, theaterrat, yakfaceThe following stores are all stores that I've dealt with or have become friends with through the forums and I highly recommend them all.Comics Castle-owned & operated by Pat McCauslinAlpha Comics--Legends (Vol 2)--Metropolis Connections--Comic Cellar
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