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Yet another seller who collects and runs Options
LadyJay
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:57:40 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CR-Policies, Member, Moderator, Super Hero Showdown Host

Joined: 5/13/2007
Posts: 6,754
Points: 113,202
Location: Monrovia, MD
Technically, CCL does have policies for Sellers with regards to maintaining CSRs above a certain level, not putting stores in vacation mode until all items are shipped, etc. I couldn't find the threads, so I'm going to assume they're somewhere in the Super Sellers Lounge where stores can see them.

From what I'm reading, the problem isn't so much a lack of rules, regulations, policies, whatever you want to call them, it's a lack of enforcement of what's already in place.

If you have a problem with a Seller, I recommend contacting GoLoco/CCL directly. If enough members contact them about the same seller, they may eventually decide to take action.



4saken1
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:52:28 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 2,494
Points: 10,347
comicscastle wrote:
I've been selling on here for 5 1/2 years now and I think my feedback speaks for itself. There have always been topics started to complain about a problem store. The difference between the old days and now, as I see it, are that in the past when someone posted a CCL representative like The_Valiant_One would see the post and act on it right away so the problem would get rectified and the topic would end. Now we're lucky if we ever see Steve or anyone else from CCL on the forums at all. Also, people are generally opposed to posting negatively in a public forum. Lately, thanks in part to Don, we have had some long drawn out threads that show the average person that it's OK to complain publicly and that it often leads to a solution you might not have been able to get on your own. I think the number of problems are the same but now they are more visible. One last thought is that in the old days there were less stores and smaller stores. I can remember when 3,000 books put you on the first page of the seller list, now you need over 13,000. Twice the number of stores selling 3 or 4 times the product will lead to a larger percentage of problems.


+1

As a buyer, I've been pretty lucky with CCL. Other than the occasional missing or misgraded book (the latter of which I experience far more on eBay), I can't say I've had too many complaints. I tend to stay clear of stores that have an overabundance of 'Mortal' and/or 'Villain' ratings, and the few times I have given a new store a try, have had no problems.

I'm not saying that it's not possible that there might be a higher incidence of fraudulent Seller's on CCL now, but the evidence at this point is anecdotal. Heck, it might be possible that since there's very few 'bargain' Sellers left on CCL, people are that much more likely to try out one that has a sketchy or nonexistent record. Maybe there's the same number of 'seedy' stores here, but more people are shopping at their stores because there's not that many places left to get their dollar books at.

ComicVortex

Current specials:

Get some of your comics for 30% off
For every comic you purchase from our 'Bargain Bin' (those priced $1 or less), another comic purchased over $1 will be $30% off (refunded via PayPal). eg. If you purchase 10 'Bargain Bin' books, then 10 books purchased that are each over $1 will recieve this refund, etc.

Free Shipping

Every domestic order of 25 or more comics gets FREE SHIPPING (Media Mail). Though I can't provide Free Shipping on foreign orders, we do offer a $5 refund on postage for purchases of 25 or more comics to foreign countries or a $10 refund if you buy 50 comics (again, foreign orders only).

4saken1
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:56:23 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 2,494
Points: 10,347
LadyJay wrote:
Technically, CCL does have policies for Sellers with regards to maintaining CSRs above a certain level, not putting stores in vacation mode until all items are shipped, etc. I couldn't find the threads, so I'm going to assume they're somewhere in the Super Sellers Lounge where stores can see them.

From what I'm reading, the problem isn't so much a lack of rules, regulations, policies, whatever you want to call them, it's a lack of enforcement of what's already in place.

If you have a problem with a Seller, I recommend contacting GoLoco/CCL directly. If enough members contact them about the same seller, they may eventually decide to take action.


Another +1! I hope that the Admin's lack of presence on the Forums doesn't mean their not addressing direct complaints about problem Sellers!

ComicVortex

Current specials:

Get some of your comics for 30% off
For every comic you purchase from our 'Bargain Bin' (those priced $1 or less), another comic purchased over $1 will be $30% off (refunded via PayPal). eg. If you purchase 10 'Bargain Bin' books, then 10 books purchased that are each over $1 will recieve this refund, etc.

Free Shipping

Every domestic order of 25 or more comics gets FREE SHIPPING (Media Mail). Though I can't provide Free Shipping on foreign orders, we do offer a $5 refund on postage for purchases of 25 or more comics to foreign countries or a $10 refund if you buy 50 comics (again, foreign orders only).

SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:58:20 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CCL Feature Crew, CR-Guidelines, Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 11,425
Points: 1,967,521
Location: PA
Whoops! Double post. See below.

"Words have meaning." - my wife
SwiftMann
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:59:31 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CCL Feature Crew, CR-Guidelines, Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 11,425
Points: 1,967,521
Location: PA
LadyJay wrote:
Technically, CCL does have policies for Sellers with regards to maintaining CSRs above a certain level, not putting stores in vacation mode until all items are shipped, etc. I couldn't find the threads, so I'm going to assume they're somewhere in the Super Sellers Lounge where stores can see them.


I could have sworn both were posted in the open forums, but I can't find the Sellers one anywhere but in the Lounge, so I'll post it after this link to they Buyers.

Buyers' Code of Conduct



The_Valiant_One wrote:
In an effort to create and maintain a safe and trusted experience for both buyers AND sellers on Comic Collector Live, the following changes will be made to the CCL TERMS & CONDITIONS under SELLER CODES OF CONDUCT effective October 1st, 2012:

1) Any store (or member) that receives more than 3 VILLAIN feedback ratings in a 30-day period of time will be locked out of their CCL account for 60 days pending review at which point CCL reserves the right to close the store. In the case of a seller, inventory will not show up for sale to the membership until contacting us directly and explaining how they will be rectifying the situation in the future. Your $14.95 a month will continue to be charged UNLESS you close your store down, at which point you will not be allowed to reopen your store until you make the outstanding balance, if any, good.

2) Stores may only go into "vacation mode" when all outstanding orders with CCL customers are fulfilled and marked as "shipped". Any store with outstanding "sold" orders will not be allowed to go into vacation mode or face CCL disciplinary action. Additionally, stores may only go into vacation mode once during a 30-day period unless otherwise approved by Comic Collector Live.

3) Sellers must keep accurate and current contact information in our system in the event CCL needs to contact you in regards to your account including phone number, e-mail address and mailing address.

Please note that CCL is currently reviewing all our policies and procedures in regards to feedback for both buyers AND sellers as well as updating our current procedures to make a better and safer customer experience for everyone.


Thanks for reading and please PM us with any questions!


You'll notice that for anything to be applicable in that code of conduct action was required by CCL. Draw your own conclusions from there.

"Words have meaning." - my wife
LadyJay
Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:40:26 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CR-Policies, Member, Moderator, Super Hero Showdown Host

Joined: 5/13/2007
Posts: 6,754
Points: 113,202
Location: Monrovia, MD
Thanks Swifty!



robofan78
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 2:53:54 PM
Rank: Supporting Cast
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/31/2009
Posts: 28
Points: 1,337
You know reading through some of these posts, I think it is getting off track of my original point. I know the whole thing with Don as I was part of it, but he was at least open until the end even if he wasn’t filling the orders. My point was this seller was able to just close her store right after she got a few orders with them still in sold status. I am not talking about insurance or rules or this or that, just the fact that the site/software, whatever, let her close her store with open orders. I had actually sent her a message within a few days of placing the order which has still unread status on it, which shows me she closed right after I placed the order. Here I was waiting for over a month not knowing she even closed. The way the site works as many of you know, a seller still shows up under your purchased items list like they exist even if they aren’t on the site anymore. Nothing told me she was gone until I searched for her and she came up as not found. I wasn’t asking for rules or insurance against bad sellers, maybe an automated notification message like “be advised, a recent store you ordered from is now closed”, a “store closed” next to their name under your orders to make you aware, or even barring them from closing with pending orders. I guess paypal is the only defense in this matter but with as slow as it is to pack orders then ship them and receive them via media mail most of the time, the 45 day window goes by very quickly, and as I stated before I believe she knew this and was stalling for it to go by. The way Amazon runs their sellers is that all payments go through them and then they deposit the money minus their cut into the seller’s account, maybe CCL can do something similar to that so they can back charge poor sellers.
freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:30:30 PM

Rank: Watcher
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 929
Points: 6,271
robofan78 wrote:
The way Amazon runs their sellers is that all payments go through them and then they deposit the money minus their cut into the seller’s account, maybe CCL can do something similar to that so they can back charge poor sellers.


Atomic avenue uses that system and let me tell you it sucks when something goes wrong. I bought a comic from a seller for like $3 and $5 shipping. Well he shipped me wrong book and wanted me to send back on my dime for refund of comic only. So either way I was going to be out $8. Well then had to contact admins and they said same thing so had to deal with paypal anyways to get refund. So it just adds a 3rd party to the whole deal.



Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



BurningDoom
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:39:56 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Beta, Guru, Member, Moderator, Movies Host, Subscriber, TV Host

Joined: 1/5/2007
Posts: 12,623
Points: 60,602
Location: Redding, CA
freakdylan wrote:
robofan78 wrote:
The way Amazon runs their sellers is that all payments go through them and then they deposit the money minus their cut into the seller’s account, maybe CCL can do something similar to that so they can back charge poor sellers.


Atomic avenue uses that system and let me tell you it sucks when something goes wrong. I bought a comic from a seller for like $3 and $5 shipping. Well he shipped me wrong book and wanted me to send back on my dime for refund of comic only. So either way I was going to be out $8. Well then had to contact admins and they said same thing so had to deal with paypal anyways to get refund. So it just adds a 3rd party to the whole deal.


That crap makes me angry.

It happens on eBay, too. Their argument is that they shouldn't have to give a refund without getting the item back. I understand that, but at the same time I shouldn't be the one to have to pay shipping for your mistake, it's not like I did anything wrong.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
lbej
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 5:29:00 PM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Moderator, Subscriber

Joined: 6/7/2009
Posts: 329
Points: 987
Location: North Carolina
freakdylan wrote:
robofan78 wrote:
The way Amazon runs their sellers is that all payments go through them and then they deposit the money minus their cut into the seller’s account, maybe CCL can do something similar to that so they can back charge poor sellers.


Atomic avenue uses that system and let me tell you it sucks when something goes wrong. I bought a comic from a seller for like $3 and $5 shipping. Well he shipped me wrong book and wanted me to send back on my dime for refund of comic only. So either way I was going to be out $8. Well then had to contact admins and they said same thing so had to deal with paypal anyways to get refund. So it just adds a 3rd party to the whole deal.


Sellers have exorbitant power on Atomic Avenue. They can cancel items out of orders and ship without recourse or explanation--a seller could cancel 9 out of 10 items and ship the rest before a buyer has a chance to cancel the order. Sellers can review orders after the fact, cancel items that they want to relist for more, and relist immediately at a MUCH higher price without any negative consequences apart from feedback that AA quickly obscures. I've had this happen to me eight times that I can count. Recently I had a seller tell me that the books I bought were priced too low--even though they matched AA and were above Overstreet--and that I should have known he wouldn't fill the order. He asked me to cancel it and when I wouldn't, he held the order for three weeks until I contacted AA administration. They then suggested I cancel the order as the seller requested. When I didn't, AA canceled the order and the seller immediately relisted a $3 book for $40. I was told by the admin that there was nothing AA could do, and when I asked for confirmation that they have no policy against sellers using dummy listings for price discovery, I was told the matter would be escalated and I would hear back. Surprise--I didn't.

Atomic Avenue's policy of holding buyer funds and disbursing to sellers allows the sellers to cancel and relist items without have to involve Paypal. The AA feedback system only shows the most recent ratings and a star rating (out of five) and it's impossible to see either (1) how many negatives a seller has received or (2) any information about those negatives once they're a month or so in the past.

CCL isn't perfect but it's so much more friendly to buyers that Atomic Avenue that there's almost no comparison, at least in my opinion. Any time I order a book on AA that might sell higher anywhere else, I've come to expect it will be cancelled out of my order and relisted. That's why I rarely buy on AA and then only from sellers I know.

Please make sure you read and understand the forum rules here
freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 6:08:31 PM

Rank: Watcher
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 929
Points: 6,271
lbej wrote:

Sellers can review orders after the fact, cancel items that they want to relist for more, and relist immediately at a MUCH higher price without any negative consequences apart from feedback that AA quickly obscures.


lol, that happened to me as well. Bought a $300 book and bam cancelled and relisted for 450.


Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



4saken1
Posted: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:56:58 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 2,494
Points: 10,347
robofan78 wrote:
I wasn’t asking for rules or insurance against bad sellers, maybe an automated notification message like “be advised, a recent store you ordered from is now closed”, a “store closed” next to their name under your orders to make you aware, or even barring them from closing with pending orders.


I think any one of these would be excellent additions to any future updates (assuming we will eventually see any - but hey, that's another topic altogether).

ComicVortex

Current specials:

Get some of your comics for 30% off
For every comic you purchase from our 'Bargain Bin' (those priced $1 or less), another comic purchased over $1 will be $30% off (refunded via PayPal). eg. If you purchase 10 'Bargain Bin' books, then 10 books purchased that are each over $1 will recieve this refund, etc.

Free Shipping

Every domestic order of 25 or more comics gets FREE SHIPPING (Media Mail). Though I can't provide Free Shipping on foreign orders, we do offer a $5 refund on postage for purchases of 25 or more comics to foreign countries or a $10 refund if you buy 50 comics (again, foreign orders only).

ratrapp
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013 4:51:22 PM
Rank: Superhero
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/2/2010
Posts: 108
Points: 324
Location: buena vista va
I haven't heard of atomic avenue but if that's how it sellers operate then I won't use that website.for the most part I think most sellers on here do a great job.
Thundercron
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013 11:35:38 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 2,589
Points: 32,472
Location: Vancouver, Washington
freakdylan wrote:
lbej wrote:

Sellers can review orders after the fact, cancel items that they want to relist for more, and relist immediately at a MUCH higher price without any negative consequences apart from feedback that AA quickly obscures.


lol, that happened to me as well. Bought a $300 book and bam cancelled and relisted for 450.


What kind of business model is that?? Do the books actually sell when they are relisted for more?? Reminds me of crazy old-timers that won't sell their stuff. You offer them $5,000 for something, and they don't sell because they think it must be worth $7,000. You offer them $7,000, and they hold out for $10,000. Eventually they just overprice themselves out of the market.
wickedcomics
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:04:31 AM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/14/2011
Posts: 1,433
Points: 18,961
The fastest way to probably get a hold of someone at CCL is probably through Facebook. I see some have a lot of time to post pictures etc..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8549149033/

wickedcomics
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 10:37:15 AM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/14/2011
Posts: 1,433
Points: 18,961
The USPS has gotten a lot better with shipping/tracking numbers. I made a purchase from someone a few weeks back (maybe a month ago) for a bunch of books. I personally think they had a lot of books miss-priced because even with my retailer discount I couldn't get them for that price. So I place my order and 2 weeks go by and nothing. I ask the seller for a tracking number and they tell me they see it in Delaware I should get it within a few days (never gave me the tracking number btw) After the 3rd week I just filed a claim with paypal. Yes it's frustrating to have to do so but I just left it as is. I learned my lesson not to buy from them again, they told me that if I got the books if I could return them. I didn't expect to get the books which I never did but you live and learn.

I've sold about 10 orders since I opened shop again a few weeks ago. Only 3-4 left feedback the others left nothing. Sometimes it's easier to hear about the bad then it is to hear about the good. While it does suck that I have 5 negative feedback now because of someone that was running my store.. it is what it is. I can't do anything now to change what happened but I can do everything to change what will happen from here on out.

BurningDoom
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 11:17:55 AM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Beta, Guru, Member, Moderator, Movies Host, Subscriber, TV Host

Joined: 1/5/2007
Posts: 12,623
Points: 60,602
Location: Redding, CA
wickedcomics wrote:
The fastest way to probably get a hold of someone at CCL is probably through Facebook. I see some have a lot of time to post pictures etc..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8549149033/


Nothing wrong with being active on Facebook. But the main focus of sellers (and admin for that matter) should be right here at the home site if we want this to be an active, successful website.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
wickedcomics
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:01:23 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/14/2011
Posts: 1,433
Points: 18,961
I'm not touching the communication topic with those that run CCL. I was just showing an alternative to getting a hold of someone.


BurningDoom wrote:
wickedcomics wrote:
The fastest way to probably get a hold of someone at CCL is probably through Facebook. I see some have a lot of time to post pictures etc..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8549149033/


Nothing wrong with being active on Facebook. But the main focus of sellers (and admin for that matter) should be right here at the home site if we want this to be an active, successful website.


ratrapp
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 1:53:45 PM
Rank: Superhero
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/2/2010
Posts: 108
Points: 324
Location: buena vista va
as far as leaving feedback,i leave feedback for every transaction whether on here,ebay or on the corral(MUSTANG SITE)I can't say the same for the other side of my puchases or sales.
lbej
Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013 5:58:49 PM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Moderator, Subscriber

Joined: 6/7/2009
Posts: 329
Points: 987
Location: North Carolina
Thundercron wrote:
freakdylan wrote:
lbej wrote:

Sellers can review orders after the fact, cancel items that they want to relist for more, and relist immediately at a MUCH higher price without any negative consequences apart from feedback that AA quickly obscures.


lol, that happened to me as well. Bought a $300 book and bam cancelled and relisted for 450.


What kind of business model is that?? Do the books actually sell when they are relisted for more?? Reminds me of crazy old-timers that won't sell their stuff. You offer them $5,000 for something, and they don't sell because they think it must be worth $7,000. You offer them $7,000, and they hold out for $10,000. Eventually they just overprice themselves out of the market.


These sellers use AA for price discovery--list a book for a trial price knowing you can cancel and relist for higher. Sellers aren't obligated by AA policy to complete a transaction. They can claim a book was 'mislisted'--they have it, but they priced it too low. AA administration confirmed this is acceptable.

Based on my observations, I believe the sellers in question on Atomic Avenue relist most of the books they cancel on eBay. They use AA to find out what's hot--it sells fast--then they sell on eBay where the auction format drives up the prices. It's unscrupulous and AA condones it. They also limit the number of feedback comments buyers can view and hide the number of negatives, showing only a blended 'star' rating. Buyers who use Atomic Avenue need to understand that if they buy a book on AA that sells elsewhere for higher, there's a good chance the order for that book won't be filled. As such, building an order around a key book (to hit free shipping thresholds, to make the shipping worthwhile in the first place, etc.) is very dangerous because there's nothing to stop a seller from shipping an order without the key book. I realize that's possible here as well, but AA has more responsibility because they act not as a broker but as a middleman/clearinghouse, taking funds from the buyer and disbursing them to the seller. And they obscure negative feedback.

I do use Atomic Avenue, but only because some sellers I know are reliable only list there.

Please make sure you read and understand the forum rules here
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