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Poll Question: Should newsstand editions be added to the CCL DB?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 15 33%
No 18 40%
Indifferent 12 26%

POLL: Newsstand edition comics Options
Tamwood
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:24:31 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 11/13/2009
Posts: 1,635
Points: 148,415
Location: Indiana
outcast wrote:
Tamwood wrote:
.
.
.
I realize it's only a penny to list a book. But if you've got a 30,000 book collection, and there's 2,000 newsstand books strewn throughout, that's $200 they've gotta pony-up up front.

I'm sure it was never Tamwood's intent to misrepresent the cost of relisting newsstand comics. Lest anyone take his calculation at face value, though, and base a decision on it, I would like to point out that 1¢ × 2000 books = $20.00.

Really, though, I would hope that the site would waive fees for any relists arising from separation of newsstands from directs, just as I hope the site now waives relists that become necessary due to changes in Library data (e.g., the recent specification of flip covers on Warstrike #1).


Yeah, no. They don't waive any fees. After all "it's only a penny."

And my on-the-fly math skills aside, $200 or $20, it's still a lot of money for 1 dude to buy a $1.00 book.
outcast
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:39:45 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
Points: 1,855
BurningDoom wrote:
I REALLY don't understand the mentality here for those that don't want it added. It comes off as selfish to me.

What I mean is that I can completely understand that some collector's don't care about the difference. Generally, I don't. I just want a copy that I can read.

But because you (or I) don't care, why should those that DO CARE not get the separation? If it's helpful for any collector or seller, shouldn't CCL be trying to cater them? Don't we want more collectors and sellers here?

Just to throw it out there, Mile High Comics website separates them, and they have the highest selling comic website out there.
Though I am absolutely in favor of listing newsstands and directs separately, I do appreciate that such separation, if poorly implemented, could result in extra work (and possibly expense) for sellers who already have comics listed here. For some individuals, I can see that that translates into a reluctance to separate listings.

I think, though, that this concern could be alleviated with appropriate planning and programming. It could be specified that the listings that already exist are for the generic comic; buyers ordering from such a listing would be told that they will have no control over whether the purchased comic will be newsstand or direct. If newsstand and direct versions are added to the Library, the primary listing would become deprecated (the primary listing would continue to exist, but new listings of the issue would have to be added either to the newsstand or the direct listing). Sellers who have already listed comics would not have to change them. Buyers who don't care could buy from the deprecated listing until all copies in that listing have sold. After all copies have sold, the deprecated listing would be retained only for preservation of market information, and would be displayed to users only on demand (in other words, would be invisible by default).
outcast
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:50:46 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
Points: 1,855
BruceReville wrote:
I understand that but the listings are not complete - why not complete what is allowed before starting yet another project that may also go uncompleted
New comics are published every week—"completed" can be an elusive concept when you're trying to hit a moving target.
BruceReville
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:00:25 PM

Rank: Watcher
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 961
Points: 2,883
outcast wrote:
BruceReville wrote:
I understand that but the listings are not complete - why not complete what is allowed before starting yet another project that may also go uncompleted
New comics are published every week—"completed" can be an elusive concept when you're trying to hit a moving target.


I was talking about older comics such as Whitmans - UK/Canadian Price Variants - Dollar Tree/Dollar General Editions that are not complete on the database - finish one thing before starting another like trying to add newstand version of comics to the database


Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Collect Again --- VARIANTS STRIKE!



outcast
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:15:18 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
Points: 1,855
Tamwood wrote:
.
.
.
To me. Personally. They are not variants. The UPC box is NOT a big enough change in the cover art to be a variant. To me. Personally. The UK and Canadian price differences are not variants. To me. Personaly. A difference in paper quality is not enough to be a variant. But as an Approver, I go along with the company line, which says the foreign pricing, or paper quality does make it a variant.
Responding to your point about UPC box—Your point has validity, as far as it goes. When the barcode is the only point of difference (as it mostly has been, since about 1992), it's entirely reasonable for collectors to be indifferent about the distinction. But we are talking about collectors, here. It's also entirely reasonable for collectors to seek one preferentially over the other.

It's reasonable for a collector with forty-plus years in the hobby to feel that current newsstand comics are more closely linked with their earliest comics than are direct-sales comics with different markings (introduced in 1979). It's reasonable to want to try to own both the direct-sales version and the newsstand version of a comic, much the same as, in coin collecting, having a 1950 nickel does not reduce the desirability of the 1950-D. It's reasonable for a collector to want to preserve the (now severely) less common newsstand version of a comic for reference, for history, or for posterity. It's reasonable for a collector to value a NM newsstand comic more highly than a NM copy of its corresponding direct-sales version, in appreciation of the fact that in its supply chain, little attention was given to preservation of its condition.

And for comics pre-1992, differences between newsstands and directs go well beyond different barcodes. For such comics, it can be entirely reasonable for collectors to have different aesthetic responses to the two versions, and therefore to prefer one version over the other. That some prefer newsstand, and some directs, merely underscores how subjective all this can be.
outcast
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:25:58 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 423
Points: 1,855
BruceReville wrote:
I was talking about older comics such as Whitmans - UK/Canadian Price Variants - Dollar Tree/Dollar General Editions that are not complete on the database - finish one thing before starting another like trying to add newstand version of comics to the database
I guess I was assuming the Dollar Tree/Dollar General bags are still being produced. Now that I think about it, though, I was probably wrong. I certainly don't see them for sale at DG.
SwiftMann
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:29:56 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CCL Feature Crew, CR-Guidelines, Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 11,286
Points: 1,919,959
Location: PA
outcast wrote:
I would hope that the site would waive fees for any relists arising from separation of newsstands from directs, just as I hope the site now waives relists that become necessary due to changes in Library data (e.g., the recent specification of flip covers on Warstrike #1).

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Rolling on the Floor Rolling on the Floor Rolling on the Floor


Yeah. No way they do or would do that.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
joe_mccarty
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:11:36 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/10/2007
Posts: 8
Points: 24
The Marvel direct and newsstand issues have had different retail prices for a few years now. In come cases there is a $2.00 difference in price.
SwiftMann
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:25:46 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CCL Feature Crew, CR-Guidelines, Member, Super Seller

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Joined: 4/19/2007
Posts: 11,286
Points: 1,919,959
Location: PA
SwiftMann wrote:
After the first twelve hours or so, 24 votes.

Yes 7 29%
No 9 37%
Indifferent 8 33%


Just tracking from a total voters perspective to see where we stall out. The original poll had 73 votes, but I'm pretty sure 20+ of those came weeks after it originally went up.


About 41 hours after it started we're 32 votes deep.

Yes 10 31%
No 12 37%
Indifferent 10 31%

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
MoonKnight1
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:17:16 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Guru, Member, Moderator, Sports Host, Super Seller

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Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 2,929
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Wow! Three way split. Who woulda thunk it?

Fantastic News! Hall of Heroes has now surpassed 600 Hero Ratings! I couldn't have done it without all of you and I will strive to maintain and improve my high standards. Which brings me to my next announcement - starting now, all shipments will come with tracking at no extra charge to you! I'm a little late to the party but as they say - better late than never. You spoke and I heard you loud and clear. Excelsior!



Now with 1,500+ positive feedback on the four letter site!
Standing offer to all CCL Members - every purchase you make from my other store (link below) earns you at least one freebie of my choice! If you purchase from Hall Liquidations send a PM to Hall of Heroes and let me know! Thanks!

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Jim
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:20:43 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/16/2007
Posts: 10,419
Points: 10,096,227
Location: Everett, WA
A small part of me wishes I didn't include the indifferent because it's really not helpful. Indifferent should have simply been abstain from voting. They are basically throwaway votes.

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SwiftMann
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:30:45 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, CCL Feature Crew, CR-Guidelines, Member, Super Seller

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Location: PA
Jim wrote:
A small part of me wishes I didn't include the indifferent because it's really not helpful. Indifferent should have simply been abstain from voting. They are basically throwaway votes.

Most of the time I loathe No Opinion votes in polls. Basically, get off the fence and make a pick.

But in this one I can actually see people not giving a flying **** one way or the other. Indifference, to me, gets lumped in with the No votes as far as they don't actively want the newsstands added.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

"The return of beards and 90's fashion makes hipsters and homeless people impossible to tell apart." - Woody, Quantum & Woody #5
Jim
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:32:58 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/16/2007
Posts: 10,419
Points: 10,096,227
Location: Everett, WA
SwiftMann wrote:
Jim wrote:
A small part of me wishes I didn't include the indifferent because it's really not helpful. Indifferent should have simply been abstain from voting. They are basically throwaway votes.

Most of the time I loathe No Opinion votes in polls. Basically, get off the fence and make a pick.

But in this one I can actually see people not giving a flying **** one way or the other. Indifference, to me, gets lumped in with the No votes as far as they don't actively want the newsstands added.


I agree here. It's basically the same thing where I work when we have polls. Indifference is slid over to the "no" side of things.

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Jim
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:36:16 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/16/2007
Posts: 10,419
Points: 10,096,227
Location: Everett, WA
BTW, I am truly astonished at the number of votes cast on a relatively unmarketed poll in contrast to the average number of votes cast during the heavily marketed SHS games. Those barely had an average of 15 votes per day and rarely ever near 35 per day at its most popular.

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Tamwood
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 5:33:04 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 11/13/2009
Posts: 1,635
Points: 148,415
Location: Indiana
I'm not. I hate all that crap. If there was a way to turn off all the Games and Movie/Video Game threads from popping up when I click "Active Topics" I'd be on cloud 9.
manfred_spain
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 6:16:02 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/14/2011
Posts: 3
Points: 9
As a collector, it's simple for me. I collect newstand variants. So change nothing and I can't shop on the site since I won't know for sure what I will get. Add the newstand variation and I can shop with confidence.
freakdylan
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 6:21:49 PM

Rank: Watcher
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 885
Points: 6,139
Jim wrote:
SwiftMann wrote:
Jim wrote:
A small part of me wishes I didn't include the indifferent because it's really not helpful. Indifferent should have simply been abstain from voting. They are basically throwaway votes.

Most of the time I loathe No Opinion votes in polls. Basically, get off the fence and make a pick.

But in this one I can actually see people not giving a flying **** one way or the other. Indifference, to me, gets lumped in with the No votes as far as they don't actively want the newsstands added.


I agree here. It's basically the same thing where I work when we have polls. Indifference is slid over to the "no" side of things.


WHAT??? how can you possibly come to the conclusion that everyone who voted indifferent would have voted NO if only 2 options were available. That sounds like you thought the pole would end up more like original with a landslide victory for NO, so now your thinking of ways to add NO votes.

If you dont want indifferent they either void those votes or spend 1 minute making a new poll with out that option, dont assume you know how they would have voted simply to come to the conclusion you wanted.


Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



Khaine
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:26:13 PM
Rank: Eternal
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 6/3/2013
Posts: 237
Points: 731
I voted indifferent and just like my fellow pennsylvanian state I don't "giving a flying **** one way or the other"

seems like a bother, personnaly i would have to put 2 different want list item checks for the exact same issue. then juggle when i make purchases whether i have or havnt not purchased something with a bar code or not....
bluedevil2002
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:16:43 PM
Rank: Supporting Cast
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/19/2010
Posts: 29
Points: 87
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Sometimes I just want an issue, and usually the cheapest option. If I'm adding a decent sized run to my wishlist, I really don't need to add two entries for every issue just to ensure I can find the cheapest copy (or another issue from a store).

The only newsstand "variants" that should be listed are those where the actual cover (be it picture or paper stock) is significantly different.

After all, even the price guides don't distinguish between newsstand and Direct Market, because they haven't found enough fans to care about that.
Tamwood
Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2013 2:51:28 AM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 11/13/2009
Posts: 1,635
Points: 148,415
Location: Indiana
freakdylan wrote:
Jim wrote:
SwiftMann wrote:
Jim wrote:
A small part of me wishes I didn't include the indifferent because it's really not helpful. Indifferent should have simply been abstain from voting. They are basically throwaway votes.

Most of the time I loathe No Opinion votes in polls. Basically, get off the fence and make a pick.

But in this one I can actually see people not giving a flying **** one way or the other. Indifference, to me, gets lumped in with the No votes as far as they don't actively want the newsstands added.


I agree here. It's basically the same thing where I work when we have polls. Indifference is slid over to the "no" side of things.


WHAT??? how can you possibly come to the conclusion that everyone who voted indifferent would have voted NO if only 2 options were available. That sounds like you thought the pole would end up more like original with a landslide victory for NO, so now your thinking of ways to add NO votes.

If you dont want indifferent they either void those votes or spend 1 minute making a new poll with out that option, dont assume you know how they would have voted simply to come to the conclusion you wanted.


You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Neither of them is saying that anyone who chose the Indifferent option would have voted no. They're saying that, because they didn't specifically vote YES, that when it comes down to it, an Indifferent vote is as good as a No vote.

Take a poll with 10 voters and 3 choices. Three vote yes, three vote no, four vote "I don't care." Most likely, it's not gonna pass, because only 3/10 said yes. The four "swing votes" chose the who cares option, so it failed.

And, again. A winning "yes" vote on this poll wouldn't have meant we'd immediately start accepting newsstand variants into the system. It could have been a landslide victory, and it wouldn't have happened right away.

As stated in the very first post, it's information gathered to present to management (if and when they decided to pay attention).
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