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Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:27:41 AM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
Points: 65,450
In Xylob's world he was homeless by the age of 19. Starving and on the streets, spending his days just surviving and his nights sleeping under a tree in the city park.
He realized that he was in that situation due to his own poor choices and (banned)ed up priorities.
In Xylob's world he worked just about every $h!t job you can imagine and picked himself up without ever begging, panhandling, or taking charity or government subsidies to solve his own problems. Including picking up trash and picking crops.
He used a fake address to get a job, then he got a second job. Then after a bit he got a place to live, and a THIRD job.

He now owns a house and a car and still works hard for what he has. He's earned it.
If he could do it, most others can too. He cared enough about his problems to do something about them instead of sitting on the street with his hand out, expecting a solution to fall into his lap or the government to save him.

You assume much about Xylob, but know jack $hit about him.
You assume his parents got their sh!t together only through the good grace of others who helped them out, you assume his parents didn't work hard to earn what they got and only lifted themselves up through favors and nepotism. You're dead (banned)ing wrong and you're showing your ignorance. Maybe your family got where they were via shady back room deals, but don't paint everydoby with the same brush used on you.
Do not belittle my own accomplishments with assumptions that I am "A person with all the right connections".
Perhaps because you are incapable of it yourself, you assume that hard work and dedication will not get you anywhere because you only got where you are through ass kissing.

I don't assume others are not trying to help themselves, I would just like to see the evidence of it before handing them my tax dollars.
When I see somebody with a cardboard sign begging for my money when they sit in front of a McDonalds with a "NOW HIRING" sign, it p!sses me off a little bit. When you don't have a job, you are not "too good" for any job - I know this for a fact through my own experience. Not pretty theories of a utopia while I sit at a keyboard.
When a co-worker comes to me for help solving a problem they have, I expect them to show me what they've done already to solve their problem, I expect the same from others elsewhere.
"I have a problem - fix it" gets you nowhere with me.
"Can you help me with this? Here's what I've tried so far" will get my help.

As for college and formal education... I can't count how many people I know with degrees who are not working in their chosen field. Let us not forget about the countless millions of "well-educated" citizens buried under mountains of debt they acquired getting the education they are not using.
I also can't believe that most companies now require a bachelors to be a secretary or receptionist.
Formal education is grossly over-rated. Every day I work with complete idiots who have degrees - frankly, most degress are purchased these days, not earned through hard work and learning.
Our education system has devolved to the point where children are only taught how to memorize data long enough to pass a test. We haven't taught children how to learn, think, or solve problems in decades.

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freakdylan
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:48:42 AM

Rank: Watcher
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/4/2012
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Not going to quote your entire tirade but here are some funny parts.


Xylob wrote:

If he could do it, most others can too.


So again if EVERYONE can do it and DID do it, who exactly would be picking up your trash? You seem to forget that no matter what someone has to do those low paying crappy jobs, that dont offer health care or the means to pay for it themselves.

In your world of everyone needs to work harder, and smarter, etc to succeed who does those menial jobs for low pay.


Xylob wrote:
You assume much about Xylob, but know jack $hit about him.
You assume his parents got their sh!t together only through the good grace of others who helped them out, you assume his parents didn't work hard to earn what they got and only lifted themselves up through favors and nepotism. You're dead (banned)ing wrong and you're showing your ignorance. Maybe your family got where they were via shady back room deals, but don't paint everydoby with the same brush used on you.
Do not belittle my own accomplisments with assumptions that I am "A person with all the right connections".
Perhaps because you are incapable of it yourself, you assume that hard work and dedication will not get you anywhere because you only got where you are through ass kissing.


lmfao wow, not even sure who you are talking too but I didnt see those posts where they assumed so much about you. Such anger, you need to just join the damn darkside with that nasty little speech.


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Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:56:29 AM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
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Those jobs will always exist. Everybody has to start somewhere, we can't all start at the top because daddy handed us a job we didn't earn.
It's too bad you can't read, those assumptions were made in this very thread.
ukblueky wrote:
Xylob wrote:
"It's not my fault I'm poor, my parents were poor and society won't give me a break" is nothing but a cry-baby bull$hit excuse.
My parents were poor when I was a kid. I am not.
Now, neither are they.
No hand-outs, no charity.
Just determination and a willingness to address and solve our own problems.
Wall

That's good for them and you (not being sarcastic but genuine) but no one gets anywhere without help. Most jobs that pay well are gotten because the person needing the job knows someone who helps them get the job. A person with all the right connections will get farther in life then the person without connections...
.

Health care is not a right. Affordable or otherwise. Sad, but true.
It didn't even exist a few hundred years ago (leeches and birch bark don't count, sorry). Saying health care is a right is like saying broadband internet and good cell service are a right.

"Xylob's world" is the real one. He's lived through these problems and isn't "addressing the issues" from an academic viewpoint.


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Khaine
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:00:49 AM
Rank: Eternal
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 6/3/2013
Posts: 237
Points: 731
health care shouldn't be a federal level problem, it should be at a state or local level where they are better able to handle the specific needs of their citizens.

MickyD jobs were never intended to be full time career jobs (they are entry level jobs for high school kids for god sake), I think many people have a problem with relocating. There is a saying "When the going gets tough the tough get going". If you can't get a good job where your at, leave. I live in a small town, within the past decade there are more and more people from the cities moving in, why? Because, there are unskilled jobs here that pay twice as good than a mickyd job and the cost of living is incredibley less than say New York.

Many people focus on the minority of the minority of the problem but, try to encompass everyone into the solution. That's where this obama care sprung up and why it has given so many heartburn.

Is there people who need a type of obama care? yes. Is there people who will always need a obama care type coverage and will never be able to get a job because they are mentally or physically in capable to do so? yes. Should obama care be national? no.

I see footage of those "special" cases the "lazy" people or the "unfortunate" and its just kills me that people buy into it. People get this knee jerk reaction that the President needs to do something and do it right now but, instead it should be why hasn't the mayor done something yet (in most cases the mayor doesn't even know of the problem because it wasn't an issue till CNN/FOX made a big sensationalized stink to it)

anyways thats my diatribe on it yes there should be health care for those that can't afford it no it shouldnt national. It should be a case by case and a state function just like unemployment and welfare.
Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:46:08 AM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
Points: 65,450
Applause Applause
Well said, on all points.

I've worked just about every crap job there is in the fast food industry, from lowliest of the lowly to general manager for 3 franchises.
Flipping burgers, running the register, working the drive-thru - these are all jobs for kids (or retirees). They are not a career, though they can be a place to start one. The knowledge, skills, and abilities required for those positions are not worth $15 an hour. They are worth minimum wage.
If you're 40 years old and working the register at Micky Ds for a living, you do not "deserve" $15 an hour.
If you're 40 years old working fast food and you're an owner or a well-paid manager, good for you.

Same for retail. I've worked from the bottom up in that industry as well and it's the same situation (If I had to, I'd go back to fast food before retail though, retail chews you up and spits you out).

Too many people simply are not willing to do what is necessary to support themselves, wheter it means taking a job they don't like or moving somehwere else to get a better way. They'd rather say they "can't" get a job and then expect Uncle Sam to give them a check.

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Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
ukblueky
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:33:04 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/7/2007
Posts: 4,203
Points: 12,609
Location: Kentucky
My problem with people that holler "I don't want to pay for someone to sit on their butt all day while I work" is that it doesn't matter. What do you think will happen if the conservatives win and all social programs are dropped from the face of the earth? Do you think the conservatives will just let you quit paying taxes? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. You will still pay the same amount of taxes, heck you might even pay more. Everyone with any common sense and can read knows that when a conservative is in the White House the national debt gets bigger (Obama isn't a conservative but his record is pathetic). Reagan had the country in debt so bad it wasn't funny, Bush Sr called Reagans math "voodoo math" and didn't follow it, Clinton came along and we had a surplus, then good ole Dubya got elected and ran us back into debt. No I'm not a liberal. I'm not a sheep who follows parties. I can think for myself. Myself I think it is actually the churches place to take care of the poor, needy, disabled, orphaned, and widowed not the government. But the church has quit doing this long ago and turned the duty over the government.
While I have never been homeless and pray to God I never have to be. I do understand what it is to be poor. My parents had me when my dad was 18 and my mom was 16. My dad had a good job at first being an electrician for the rail road. My dad lost his job when I was probably around 2 because they dismantled the rail road in our area. They told him he could relocate to New York but he chose to stay in our home town. His grandparents who had adopted him and raised him because his dad, their son, went to fight in Vietnam were getting up in age and not in the best of health. So he chose to be around for them. He done whatever job he could get but had nothing really stable until years later. For a small time we got government assistance and I can remember standing in the food line with my mom to get cheese and the such( this was before food stamps). We were not on social programs because my parents were lazy and didn't work. We were on them because we were poor. My mom baby sat for other families and my dad took whatever job he could find but they still needed help. This is how I choose to see people on social programs. I don't choose to paint everyone with the conservative paint brush that they are all lazy and money grubbers. Sure some of that exists but why dwell on those bad apples when you can focus on the actual needy people.
Everything isn't as easy as black and white. Life is mostly grey I have found out. If a person cant find a gainful job where they live you cant tell them its their fault and to just move. Sometimes moving isn't an option. For one it takes money to move, second sometimes men or women who get divorced will stick around where their kids are because they want to see them grow up and be in their lives.
I'm getting off track. Not one single person on here has the correct answer for everything and we never will. Has long has man been around? How long has he had the chance to perfect society but has failed to do so?

Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:17:49 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
Points: 65,450
ukblueky wrote:
...No I'm not a liberal. I'm not a sheep who follows parties. I can think for myself.
Applause
Partisan politics are for those with no vision other than narrow.
ukblueky wrote:
...Myself I think it is actually the churches place to take care of the poor, needy, disabled, orphaned, and widowed not the government. But the church has quit doing this long ago and turned the duty over the government.
"the church" as in the single richest organization on the face of the planet? the organization spreading The Word, showing us all how to be "better people"? That church?
ukblueky wrote:
...Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...


ukblueky wrote:
...He done whatever job he could get but had nothing really stable until years later. For a small time we got government assistance and I can remember standing in the food line with my mom to get cheese and the such( this was before food stamps). We were not on social programs because my parents were lazy and didn't work. We were on them because we were poor. My mom baby sat for other families and my dad took whatever job he could find but they still needed help. This is how I choose to see people on social programs.
This is how I would love to see all people on social programs.
What I do see instead is thugs reeking of weed standing on line in front of me at the grocery store playing with a smartphone I can't afford while they wait to buy steaks with their EBT card.
ukblueky wrote:
...I don't choose to paint everyone with the conservative paint brush that they are all lazy and money grubbers...
I don't either - I know for a fact they aren't.
ukblueky wrote:
...Sure some of that exists but why dwell on those bad apples when you can focus on the actual needy people...
Ignoring the problem won't solve it. Besides, those bad apples are literally stealing food from the mouths of "the actual needy people". Fail to cut the cancer out and it grows uncontrollably.

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Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
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padreglcc
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:17:53 PM

Rank: Celestial
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Xylob wrote:
ukblueky wrote:
...Myself I think it is actually the churches place to take care of the poor, needy, disabled, orphaned, and widowed not the government. But the church has quit doing this long ago and turned the duty over the government.
"the church" as in the single richest organization on the face of the planet? the organization spreading The Word, showing us all how to be "better people"? That church?

I will say, as a minister in the church, that I agree with ukblueky. The church ought to be involved... leading the way even... in helping the poor and the sick. These are actual commands of Jesus. And for a long time, the church did lead the way in this. That's why so many hospitals are So-And-So Methodist Hospital, or Catholic, or Presbyterian, etc. That's why Hospice exists - because a Christian gentleman decided that those facing the end of their lives needed better end of life care. Yet the church, by and large, has abdicated its responsibilities to the state (at least in the West) and become something close to a social club. Many churches are now fed up with this and are trying to get back into the work they are called to do.

And as an aside, I can only assume that the "church" Xylob is referring to is the Roman Catholic Church, which is indeed one of the richest organizations on the planet. And like all organizations as old as it is, it has had its dark days. I'm not Roman Catholic, but I do like the new pope, Francis, and his plea to his congregations to help the poor. I look forward to seeing what he is able to accomplish with the Catholic Church's resources. Two things I would point out...1) it is no sin to be rich - through wealth those of great conscience can do great things in the world on behalf of those who have nothing, and 2) please don't lump all Christians in with one particular church/denomination - we're all different and unique and screwed up in our own special ways Winking

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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:46:56 PM

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Just reminding everyone that while political discussion naturally seem to get heated, to keep things civil.

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Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:07:56 PM

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Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
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padreglcc wrote:
...And as an aside, I can only assume that the "church" Xylob is referring to is the Roman Catholic Church, which is indeed one of the richest organizations on the planet... I'm not Roman Catholic, but I do like the new pope, Francis, and his plea to his congregations to help the poor. I look forward to seeing what he is able to accomplish with the Catholic Church's resources.
You're a very perceptive man my friend. For too long it seems that judging and hoarding have trumped helping. I too look forward to the changes he is trying to usher in.
Compassion and forgiveness, what odd concepts...
padreglcc wrote:
...2) please don't lump all Christians in with one particular church/denomination...
I try not to, but it can be difficult at times. It seems that all to often so many have forgotten that ultimately there is only one who shall judge, and it isn't them.
My various talks with you over the years have shown me how good people can be.

padreglcc wrote:
...we're all different and unique and screwed up in our own special ways Winking
Amen to that!


BurningDoom wrote:
Just reminding everyone that while political discussion naturally seem to get heated, to keep things civil.
It probably wouldn't hurt if we got the discussion back to your original topic either.

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G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
KingZombie
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:48:35 PM

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ukblueky wrote:
I guess my point is, in America you are conditioned from youth to hate and judge the poor. You are never taught to look at the situation and see why they are poor or how you could help. ...Did you realize a good chunk of the homeless are mentally ill people. ... Rich people are not rich because they work harder than everyone else and are God's chosen people.


I've never seen anything in American culture that conditions us to hate poor people. I have however seen plenty of things that condition us to hate the rich. Just the fact that you say they are rich because they don't work hard is proof. You think all rich people are spoiled trust fund babies? Hardly. People get rich because they do work hard. Look at all the richest people in the country, hell, in the world and see if they didn't start out small.

And no, a good chunk of the homeless are not mentally ill. I think most homeless people would find that offensive. Probably about 25% are mentally ill. But a good majority are homeless because of drug or alcohol addiction.
KingZombie
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:50:36 PM

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ukblueky wrote:
Reagan had the country in debt so bad it wasn't funny, Bush Sr called Reagans math "voodoo math" and didn't follow it, Clinton came along and we had a surplus, then good ole Dubya got elected and ran us back into debt.


For the record, Clinton never wiped out the debt. He balanced the budget and created a surplus for the budget. The budget and debt are not the same thing.

Also for the record, Obama has increased the debt higher than any president in history.
4saken1
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:29:34 PM

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KingZombie wrote:
For the record, Clinton never wiped out the debt. He balanced the budget and created a surplus for the budget. The budget and debt are not the same thing.


Yes, this is a common misconception. The CBO projected in 2001 that if the trend set during Clinton's administration continued, we would have been debt free by sometime in 2008.

KingZombie wrote:
Also for the record, Obama has increased the debt higher than any president in history.


This is a misleading statement! A more accurate statement would be to say that the debt during Obama's administration has gone higher than during any other administration in history. The fact of the matter is, Obama has been a very frugal President, comparitively speaking, we just don't have the revenue to pay off the debt we've incurred - mostly due to the Bush tax cuts, the ecenomic downturn, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If it wasn't for those problems, which Obama inherited, then our debt would be lower now than it was in 2001.

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4saken1
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:32:29 PM

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BurningDoom wrote:
Just reminding everyone that while political discussion naturally seem to get heated, to keep things civil.


btw, I would like to give a hand to everybody that has participated so far in this discussion for keeping their emotions in check enough so that this thread can stay open (even if we have veered slightly off path).

Applause Big Hug

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Khaine
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:23:53 AM
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KingZombie wrote:
[quote=ukblueky]For the record, Clinton never wiped out the debt. He balanced the budget and created a surplus for the budget. The budget and debt are not the same thing.

Also for the record, Obama has increased the debt higher than any president in history.


Congress balances the budget, the presidents just signs them or vetos them, taking credit when it happens to be good or blaming congress when it turns out bad. Those budgets were claimed as a success by both Newt and Bill. Depending on whoms spin you listen to those budgets were or were not balanced.

Clinton also signed NAFTA into effect which was spearheaded by Bush and in my opinion is the major cause for the downward spiral of small business and the lack of decent paying jobs in the US.

But you can't blame one man/woman or party for any one problem there is 3 branches of government, which are supposed to check and balance each other out. But that check and balance goes out the window when greed creeps in....

getting off soap box now Tongue

Not sure when we spun away from the health care thing but it makes my day go quicker at work.

edit: lol health care I meant the transfats
Xylob
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:45:20 AM

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Khaine wrote:
...Congress balances the budget...
Rolling on the Floor Rolling on the Floor Rolling on the Floor Rolling on the Floor
Not in my lifetime...
Khaine wrote:
...But you can't blame one man/woman or party for any one problem there is 3 branches of government, which are supposed to check and balance each other out. But that check and balance goes out the window when greed creeps in...
Our founding fathers also set things up so our govt would be a multi-party (as in MORE THAN TWO) system so no single group could control the house or the senate... Worked good for a while, but that ended a long time ago. It would be nice if our country wasn't so badly polarized and we could get more supporters for the other parties, but as Kodos/Kang said about voting for a 3rd party: "Go ahead, throw your vote away".

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MoonKnight1
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:13:18 AM

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Location: Richmond, VA
Xylob wrote:
Our founding fathers also set things up so our govt would be a multi-party (as in MORE THAN TWO) system so no single group could control the house or the senate... Worked good for a while, but that ended a long time ago. It would be nice if our country wasn't so badly polarized and we could get more supporters for the other parties, but as Kodos/Kang said about voting for a 3rd party: "Go ahead, throw your vote away".


You hit the nail on the head there my friend. I am so tired of having to choose between a Republican or a Democrat. Most other countries in the world (the ones that aren't ruled by one party, that is) have multiple choices to make. And the politicians have to form blocs, and compromise is accomplished, and things get done. Here it's like if you're for it, I'm against it. Gridlock occurs and not only does nothing get done but the situation becomes more polarized and we end up with government shutdowns and trillion dollar deficits.

One other thing I tire of is the sitting President (or their party) blaming everything on the preceding administration. Everything that has gone wrong in the past 6+ years has been Bush's fault, before that it was Clinton's fault, before that it was Bush and Reagan, before that Jimmy Carter, etc. etc. ad infinitum. At some point I'm sure it was all Millard Fillmore's fault. Stop blaming stuff on other people and do your job! A lot of Presidents have started off with a mess and turned things around.

I wish that more politicians had the best interests of the country foremost in their mind and fewer existed that just worked on getting re-elected and lining their pockets with taxpayer money.

Great Kang and Kodos reference!
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ukblueky
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:31:41 AM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/7/2007
Posts: 4,203
Points: 12,609
Location: Kentucky
KingZombie wrote:
ukblueky wrote:
Reagan had the country in debt so bad it wasn't funny, Bush Sr called Reagans math "voodoo math" and didn't follow it, Clinton came along and we had a surplus, then good ole Dubya got elected and ran us back into debt.


For the record, Clinton never wiped out the debt. He balanced the budget and created a surplus for the budget. The budget and debt are not the same thing.

Also for the record, Obama has increased the debt higher than any president in history.


I wasn't clear in my statement but you are correct.

Xylob
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:33:53 AM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 8,041
Points: 65,450
MoonKnight1 wrote:
...I am so tired of having to choose between a Republican or a Democrat...
I've done my civic duty, I've voted in every election since I was 18.
Not once have I voted FOR a candidate - it's always been a matter of voting AGAINST somebody. "No, I didn't cast my vote for them because I thought they were the best person for the job - I just couldn't stand the thought of that other tool in office...".

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Khaine
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:47:09 AM
Rank: Eternal
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 6/3/2013
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I do pretty much the same I vote for whom I think is the lesser of the two evils at that point and time.
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