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CGC Grading and pricing Options
scopus1
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 10:14:14 AM
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New to this forum but i'm either naive or confused. I've been collecting for aver 40 years and grading standards have always been the same no matter the age of the book. was reading the other day and heard that cgc doesn't grade as harshly on older books as they do on newer ones. this makes no sense to me!!! nm is nm and poor is poor no matter the age of the item imho. i just think that if the highest grade of a book is a 7.0 then so be it, don't give it a pass because it is old.
Don't even get me started on prices for graded books it is insane. i just don't get it, why pay way over book price for something that is in a slab and says nm on it. the only thing i see as a real benefit is the restoration check, but if people are willing to pay the price i guess its their money.
thoughts?

I just think that the grading services are taking a lot of fun out of the hobby. i love haggling over prices it is a way to get good info and learn what people are looking for in a comic. I agree that the books are meant to be read. i read mine and i don't care if it has "heaven forbid" a fingerprint that you can't see without special equipment "get real"
i guess that is what happens when you have more money than sense. another thing that i heard is that cgc doesn't tell you why a book is marked with a lower grade. "i guess you are just supposed to accept that they are the gods of comics and go on" WRONG!!!! sound familiar? trust me i'm from the government

Big Grin Big Grin
MoonKnight1
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 10:30:02 AM

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Hi Brian,

Welcome to Comic Collector Live!

It's weird that you bring this up. I was actually thinking about that issue recently. I really don't know the answer either.

Should comics from different Ages be graded differently - either with more leniency or more harshly? I am definitely interested in what everyone else thinks.

The slabbed books are not for me personally. I would rather have something that I can open up and read if I wanted to. I don't understand the allure of encasing a comic in impenetrable plastic. But, to each his or her own I guess. You're right, prices are outrageous.

Thanks for raising up such a cool topic. I hope to see you around!

Howie



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Spider-Man
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:22:58 AM

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If CGC is more lenient on an older book it will get a higher grade.

If it gets a higher grade, it has a higher value.

If it has a higher value, it cost more to grade, so CGC makes more money.

On their site under the fee schedule it states:

***In the event that CGC, at its sole discretion, determines that the fair market value is higher than the value stated by the submitter, CGC will move the comic book to the appropriate higher tier and the additional charge will be the responsibility of the submitter.

So it is a benefit for them to give older books a higher grade, they make money off them.






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padreglcc
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:52:54 AM

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Great point. CGC is a business. They're not in it to preserve comics for history, or do something nice for collectors, or even because they believe slabbing books is the right way to handle them. They want to make money. Somehow they have marketed their services as "preservation," or as something that will increase a book's value, and have gotten a lot of people to buy in to (in my opinion) a wholly unnecessary service.

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Tamwood
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 4:10:39 PM

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I do understand it, to a point. There are a few of my older books that I know are in very bad condition, that I'd consider getting graded for the protective services (Avengers #1, Showcase #24, GL #1, etc). But I think the cost is prohibitive.

Also, it seems like CGC caters to the bigger stores (of course -- they make more money off them). My LCS used to send in books to be CGC'd, but by the time we'd get them back (3 months+) other stores would have already had their copies, and sold them. A customer that sends in 100+ books to be graded is going to get put ahead of a customer that might only have 5-10 books waiting to be graded.

I personally don't own any CGC books. Again, I'd love to have a couple of my Silver Keys graded, but it's just too expensive. AND, you've gotta find someone with an account to get them done. There doesn't seem to be an easy way for Joe Schmoe off the street to send in a book.
padreglcc
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:41:38 PM

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It took my brother about 3 months to get one issue of Walking Dead back from them.

The only CGC book I have is the Wizard World Chicago cover of Captain America (2005) #25 that they gave to VIP ticket holders. I don't think that I'd pay to get any of my books graded, but I can see it if you have a rare older issue you want to preserve.

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Please make sure you read and understand the Forum Rules here.
BruceReville
Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:51:59 PM

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I personally loathe CGC - comics are meant to be read not sealed up, BUT I do like the fact the CGC has breathed life into back issue collectible market. Me however would never buy a CGC and if I did I would crack it open and set it free!!!!

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Collect Again --- VARIANTS STRIKE!



Thundercron
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 1:53:33 AM

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Spider-Man wrote:
If CGC is more lenient on an older book it will get a higher grade.

If it gets a higher grade, it has a higher value.

If it has a higher value, it cost more to grade, so CGC makes more money.

On their site under the fee schedule it states:

***In the event that CGC, at its sole discretion, determines that the fair market value is higher than the value stated by the submitter, CGC will move the comic book to the appropriate higher tier and the additional charge will be the responsibility of the submitter.

So it is a benefit for them to give older books a higher grade, they make money off them.


This is what drives them. Hey, remember that record-setting sale of Action Comics #1 CGC slabbed at 8.5 from several years back? The one that sold for $1.5 Million? Here's a pic of it, if you don't remember:



It's interesting to see that the label notes mention that this book suffers from "rusted staples". Now, anybody that's anybody that's anybody who's dealt with comics will tell you that there is no way in holy hell that a comic with rusty staples would get a grade of 8.5 (VF+). But, I'm sure the buyer of this comic isn't a collector anyway, and is some businessman/investor who purchased it simply because it's a good asset to add to his portfolio. He doesn't know that a comic with rusty staples shouldn't be graded at 8.5, but he doesn't care to question it because CGC says it's A-Okay to do so.....in this instance. As long as CGC gets their added fee for grading it as such.

Yeah....they can be pretty crooked sometimes.
ratrapp
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:49:58 AM
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I only have to cgc books,iron man 55 graded at 7.5 and green lantern 76 at 5.5.i got them relatively cheap,$90 for iron man and 200 for green lantern but I don't think I can afford to have some of my own older issues graded.personally I think it shouldn't matter how much the comic is valued at,just grade the book for one set price.
scopus1
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:31:44 AM
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I just think that the grading services are taking a lot of fun out of the hobby. i love haggling over prices it is a way to get good info and learn what people are looking for in a comic. I agree that the books are meant to be read. i read mine and i don't care if it has "heaven forbid" a fingerprint that you can't see without special equipment "get real"
i guess that is what happens when you have more money than sense. another thing that i heard is that cgc doesn't tell you why a book is marked with a lower grade. "i guess you are just supposed to accept that they are the gods of comics and go on" WRONG!!!! sound familiar? trust me i'm from the government
Big Grin
freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:13:59 AM

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Anyone who knows anything about CGC knows its a racket.

I can think of at least 5 times when it has been found CGC was being duped by crafty people into giving higher grades for books by cheating the system. Example they had a guy who was taking old (high price books) with lots of spine creases, and pressign the books flat, they would then refold the book off center so all the spine creases moved to back cover. Why? Well because CGC doesnt grade as harshly for creases on back cover as front cover. So a book with spine crease on front that would grade at 5.0, then repressed/folded was coming back at 8.0. They did this on high end key issues that jumped prices from $5k to 25k!


Also just look at preorders from big companies like Dynamic Forces. When Dynamic forces 1st started offering key new release issues slabbed by CGC the pre-order would look like this:

Awesome Comic #1 CGC graded 9.4 or better limited to 500 copies!

Then as they grew and became a larger company it went to:

Awesome Comic #1 CGC graded 9.6 or better limited to 500 copies!

now its:

Awesome Comic #1 CGC graded 9.8 limited to 500 copies!

Now do you think the 3 guys who work at Dynamic Forces have gotten so good at judging book grades that when they need 500 9.8s they can pull them out of a stack? NOPE, I have seen a ton of books that are preorders or large bulk grades look way out of line for a typical 9.8.


CGC will always be a scam 90% of the time as they are paid to grade, so the better they grade the more money they make. Plus if they disappoint large sellers (ie too many low graded books) those stores would stop sending them in, so that gives them a reason to up grades.


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Thundercron
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 10:39:06 AM

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scopus1 wrote:
I just think that the grading services are taking a lot of fun out of the hobby. i love haggling over prices it is a way to get good info and learn what people are looking for in a comic. I agree that the books are meant to be read. i read mine and i don't care if it has "heaven forbid" a fingerprint that you can't see without special equipment "get real"
i guess that is what happens when you have more money than sense. another thing that i heard is that cgc doesn't tell you why a book is marked with a lower grade. "i guess you are just supposed to accept that they are the gods of comics and go on" WRONG!!!! sound familiar? trust me i'm from the government
Big Grin


Yeah, they used to allow customers to call and get the grading notes on comics for free (up to three inquiries per day). Now, from what I understand, they charge you.
evilskip42
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:35:51 AM
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I let my feelings be known about grading services way back in the days of COMIC BUYERS GUIDE when CGC first opened its doors. I was dead set against it as I felt it would bring the actual grades "down" from accepted Overstreet at the time.Sick

Haven't changed my opinion over the years and do feel that the hobby has suffered as a result. The only good thing I can say is that they may be able to catch some restoration work that hasn't been disclosed.

I buy books to read and not have them slabbed up.Wall
Thundercron
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:14:38 PM

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evilskip42 wrote:
I let my feelings be known about grading services way back in the days of COMIC BUYERS GUIDE when CGC first opened its doors. I was dead set against it as I felt it would bring the actual grades "down" from accepted Overstreet at the time.Sick
Haven't changed my opinion over the years and do feel that the hobby has suffered as a result. The only good thing I can say is that they may be able to catch some restoration work that hasn't been disclosed.

I buy books to read and not have them slabbed up.Wall


I believe this has already started to happen.
PCPaperbacks
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:01:23 PM

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Grading is so subjective! I have been picking up Amazing Spiderman 70-128... there are some that have been given high grades that suck and some that give low grades but are too low.

This grading older books less harshly is bull!

Just cuz AMS 73 is almost 45 years old, if the white cover is off color it should be taken into account in the grade, not, not included because white covers do not hold up well over time is not a good reason for giving a comic a higher grade! I am getting a partial refund from a seller because they graded a book as a VF, but the cover was very off white with age.

Also, CGC makes no sense to me! I love collecting, but I like reading/rereading my comics I love.

Quote:
"First is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Erp"


KingZombie
Posted: Thursday, May 15, 2014 6:34:31 PM

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My understanding is CGC uses the Overstreet method of grading which tends to be more lenient on golden and silver age books.

IMO, anyone who buys a first print of Action Comics #1, Amazing Fantasy #15, Hulk #181 or even Walking Dead #1 just to read it is a fool. There are tons of reprints and collected TPBs to read it from. Buying these books are strictly for the collecting hobbyist and I wouldn't blame someone for buying a graded copy.

On the other hand, anyone who gets an issue of New Avengers #1, Civil War #1A or Secret Wars II #1 graded is also a fool.

Certain books it pays to have graded, especially if you plan to sell it but not all books.
scopus1
Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:51:21 PM
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kingzombie i see and agree with your point on a rare book like action 1 af 15 etc. all i am trying to say is that if you are going to be known as the leader in grading be consistent whether old or new. and i still say that paying over graded value for a book is idiotic. however if you buy a comic off of the shelf and read it, it doesn't mean that one that hasn't been read is in better shape. like i said before haggling is part of the fun for me. good post and cheers to all who are sharing their opinions. this is exactly what i believe makes the hobby so much fun.
Thundercron
Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:05:57 PM

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KingZombie wrote:
My understanding is CGC uses the Overstreet method of grading which tends to be more lenient on golden and silver age books.

IMO, anyone who buys a first print of Action Comics #1, Amazing Fantasy #15, Hulk #181 or even Walking Dead #1 just to read it is a fool. There are tons of reprints and collected TPBs to read it from. Buying these books are strictly for the collecting hobbyist and I wouldn't blame someone for buying a graded copy.

On the other hand, anyone who gets an issue of New Avengers #1, Civil War #1A or Secret Wars II #1 graded is also a fool.
Certain books it pays to have graded, especially if you plan to sell it but not all books.


Honestly, I would love to have a copy of every comic I collect slabbed at, say, 9.4 or better. Even my worthless Roms and Star Comics. I just like the way they look in the case. Of course, I could never afford to do this. HOWEVER, if I had the means and unlimited funds, I wouldn't have a problem blowing my money this way.
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