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Trading Cards Guidelines Options
scotteaves
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 3:58:31 PM

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Another question - where do Trading Card Tins go? I'm not talking about Factory sets, but Collector Tins with x number of packs in them.

I'd suggest they go under the title that includes the box/pack/binder/factory sets.

abydosorphan
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:40:20 PM

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Batman007 wrote:
abydosorphan is a she and she's been dutifully making the invaluable Stargate Submissions. As for the Printings, yeah, they should match the Series Number so they will have to be Edited in 2.0 unless, of course, there's some method to the Printings being 1. Only abyd and Valiant can answer this one.


From MY understanding of it, if something was reprinted then it would change the printing. The TITLE changes with each series, so why would we change the printing - unless there was a second release of the same title? This would be inaccurate as well as redundant.

With the Stargate cards, you also wouldn't be able to line the printings up with the seasons, because Seasons 1-3 were covered in the first card set (the Premiere Edition) so would that set have to be printings 1, 2 and 3, or would Season 4 then become the second printing - which it shouldn't be since none of the cards were duplicated or ever REprinted? The season denotion is part of the title and not parenthetical information, so the first printing, dealing with that title, would be the only set in existence. This would also make Season 4 the first SEASON title... so would it then automatically become the 4th printing? Or would it be the 1st printing, since it is the first time that a SEASON title was there?

This isn't like denoting the various waves of of toys within a single title. As far as I'm concerned if the title changes the printing should remain at 1 unless the series is reprinted for one reason or another.

On another note how do you manage this in with Star Trek and the VARIOUS abundance of sets that they have that cover the same seasons? Not to mention the movie cards (which Stargate hasn't released yet, but given the franchise direction I'm sure will in time).

As for the wrappers/boxes discussion - Rittenhouse also gives redemption points which gives the wrappers a value, and for one series, you needed to send in the UPC from the bottom of the box in order to redeem for a certain box topper card that was supposed to be included but didn't make it due to a manufacturing error. While I can understand these as a 'value' for sale... I would think that they should be listed under pack/box with an explanation about them being empty.

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abydosorphan
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:44:52 PM

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scotteaves wrote:
Another question - where do Trading Card Tins go? I'm not talking about Factory sets, but Collector Tins with x number of packs in them.

I'd suggest they go under the title that includes the box/pack/binder/factory sets.


I agree that these should go in with the number of items released with a set.

If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off. ~~ Anonymous
Support bacteris! It's the only culture some people have. ~~ Anonymous
Real friends stab you in the front. ~~ Oscar Wilde
abydosorphan
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:08:02 PM

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GPDCOMICS wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed this debate, but I don't agree at all. A wrapper is not a condition of a sealed pack and is an item in and of itself. It doesn't come with cards, it's a separate entity. I don't collect sealed packs of anything, but will collect a wrapper with sets. Sometimes there are more than 1 wrapper, with different images. Does that mean all the different types of wrappers/packs are going to be scanned as variants?

Also, a loose wrapper usually will not look like a sealed pack. Especially the wax ones. Most when displayed are fully opened and flat, which shows all of the front of the wrapper. Sealed packs won't show the folded part. When I mentioned collectible wrappers, I was going for those vintage wrappers, mostly 1980s and earlier. If CCL has its mind set for putting it under a sealed pack, then I guess you could always show the loose wrapper as a scan, and note it in your description. But if I decide to sell some and the customer thinks they are getting a sealed pack and get just a wrapper in the mail and is disappointed, I'm going to tell them to take it up with CCL since they decided to do things that way.

Phil


Phil,

Also, after re-reading your xcomments, I can understand where some of the confusion might be coming from. In the case of the Stargate cards, Season DOES NOT EQUAL Series. The collons that were put in place in my titles were done by the CCL approver, not by me (granted, I had also made mistakes on the parenthetical information at that point as I was not yet used to the CCL style and did the majority of my title entries the one day).

If you look at Jeff Allender's House of Checklists (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/allender/movietv.htm#movie), you can see that the title listings for each set is done seperately and without colons before the SEASON information as this is part of the TITLE of the set.

Also, if Series and Season are going to be used synonymously with printing, this is an issue that will be revisited when I start on the Stargate Atlantis cards, as Seasons one and two are their own seperate set, while Seasons 3 and 4 are one set. With 3 sets covering the four seasons should this third set therefore be printings 3 and 4 with the season finale episode marking the break between the two printings? And what printing would the chase cards associated with these sets go under - especially as it is often difficult to differentiate a specific episode an autograph comes from?

As per the Guidelines "Add missing Item, 7)Printing Field: in a series that includes multiple waves; please use the printing field to denote the series. In all other instances this field should default to 1. (example: if you are putting in Marvel Universe: Series Four... the printing field would be '4'." This information would be redundant with the title and if you used this exact same set of criteria in comic books, every additionaly volume would need to be an additional printing as they are continuations of the same series. It's not like toys where they put out another issue, these are printed material.

Also, how would you differentiate (as I have already submitted) between a printed manufacture's error card with the REPRINTED correction of that same card? In essence this corrected card is a SECOND PRINTING of the first card.

Cards are not released in 'waves' like many toys are. They are released in series that would be equivalent to comic book volumes.

If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off. ~~ Anonymous
Support bacteris! It's the only culture some people have. ~~ Anonymous
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ntkeith
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:40:38 PM

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i think the real thought Valiant put out (as he has said a couple of times) is "trying to make card inventory in a comic system". My understanding was the Printing should be thought of as Series, and treated as such. I don't think there is any relationship between printing and season, unless they just happen to line up.

Looking at the checklist site, my judgment would have been the lines would have matched the main title "Stargate SG-1" and "Stargate: Atlantis" being separate runs, with SG-1 being...

Stargate SG-1 Preview Printing 1
Stargate SG-1 Premiere Edition Printing 2
Stargate SG-1 Season 4 Printing 3
Stargate SG-1 Season 5 Printing 4
Stargate SG-1 Season 6 Printing 5
Stargate SG-1 Season 7 Printing 6
Stargate SG-1 Season 8 Printing 7
Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Printing 8
Stargate SG-1 Season 10 Printing 9

I think in the future the filed will be renamed in cards to avoid the confusion of printings. Also, those cards that were reprinted and corrected would be treated as variants (A, B, C, etc) and the Printing/Series would remain the same.

Just my thoughts and understanding.

You've heard the legend, now see it come to life! I Want More Comics
petebyrnejr
Posted: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:45:31 PM

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abydosorphan wrote:
[quote=GPDCOMICS]I'm sorry if I missed this debate, but I don't agree at all. A wrapper is not a condition of a sealed pack and is an item in and of itself. It doesn't come with cards, it's a separate entity. I don't collect sealed packs of anything, but will collect a wrapper with sets. Sometimes there are more than 1 wrapper, with different images. Does that mean all the different types of wrappers/packs are going to be scanned as variants?

Also, a loose wrapper usually will not look like a sealed pack. Especially the wax ones. Most when displayed are fully opened and flat, which shows all of the front of the wrapper. Sealed packs won't show the folded part. When I mentioned collectible wrappers, I was going for those vintage wrappers, mostly 1980s and earlier. If CCL has its mind set for putting it under a sealed pack, then I guess you could always show the loose wrapper as a scan, and note it in your description. But if I decide to sell some and the customer thinks they are getting a sealed pack and get just a wrapper in the mail and is disappointed, I'm going to tell them to take it up with CCL since they decided to do things that way.

Phil


The different types/covers of packs should be entered as variants under the "pack" entry, in situations where they exist. As for the the wrappers, with the exception of unique circumstances for which I have already contacted The_Valiant_One, they can either be entered in your own personal inventory with the apporpiate personnal scans and information under packs, or under a separate heading should CCL decide to open one up. However, you can in no way hold CCL responsible for a miscommunication between a Seller (YOU) and a Buyer, as all the pertinent information on an item is supposed to be supplied by the Seller. This would come under the "condition" of the item, which the Seller is responsible for properly representing.

I'm the best there is at what I do. But what I do best isn't very nice.

I don't want EVERYTHING, just ONE of everthing will do nicely.
petebyrnejr
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:17:29 AM

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ntkeith wrote:
i think the real thought Valiant put out (as he has said a couple of times) is "trying to make card inventory in a comic system". My understanding was the Printing should be thought of as Series, and treated as such. I don't think there is any relationship between printing and season, unless they just happen to line up.

Looking at the checklist site, my judgment would have been the lines would have matched the main title "Stargate SG-1" and "Stargate: Atlantis" being separate runs, with SG-1 being...

Stargate SG-1 Preview Printing 1
Stargate SG-1 Premiere Edition Printing 2
Stargate SG-1 Season 4 Printing 3
Stargate SG-1 Season 5 Printing 4
Stargate SG-1 Season 6 Printing 5
Stargate SG-1 Season 7 Printing 6
Stargate SG-1 Season 8 Printing 7
Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Printing 8
Stargate SG-1 Season 10 Printing 9

I think in the future the filed will be renamed in cards to avoid the confusion of printings. Also, those cards that were reprinted and corrected would be treated as variants (A, B, C, etc) and the Printing/Series would remain the same.

Just my thoughts and understanding.


I have been out of the loop lately, and for that I apologize.
Now, however, this shows how a change in the "system" has become so much more confusing, simply because we started with a system designed to catalogue printed material (Comics, Graphic Novels/TPBs, Magazines, and Hardbacks) and changed it to catalogue non-printed material (Action Figures, Statues and Busts), appropriately for those catagories.
However, cards ARE printed material, and in some cases do have reprintings, which can be handled exactly as comics. Defining cards by Title, Publisher, and Year(s) and leaving the printing field to "factual printing data" for said Title, Publisher, and Year(s).
It is inaccurate to note a 2nd-??? printing that does not actually exist, and would be inaccurate to note a reprint card as having the same printing as the original release. This not only defies logic, it defies the definition of the word(s), and is contrary to the handling of 2nd print variant comics, especially those that are released to correct editorial or printing errors, as suggested above.


I'm the best there is at what I do. But what I do best isn't very nice.

I don't want EVERYTHING, just ONE of everthing will do nicely.
SwiftMann
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:04:05 AM

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My 2c - I don't think "Season" cards should be considered in the same way that "Series" is. There's no distinction between the title of the various Marvel Universe cards, so a series indicator works for me. However, each Season creates a stand-alone title, therefore the printing field can be 1 each time.

Has DC Done Something Stupid Today?

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abydosorphan
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:30:40 AM

Rank: Vigilante
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ntkeith wrote:
i think the real thought Valiant put out (as he has said a couple of times) is "trying to make card inventory in a comic system". My understanding was the Printing should be thought of as Series, and treated as such. I don't think there is any relationship between printing and season, unless they just happen to line up.

Looking at the checklist site, my judgment would have been the lines would have matched the main title "Stargate SG-1" and "Stargate: Atlantis" being separate runs, with SG-1 being...

Stargate SG-1 Preview Printing 1
Stargate SG-1 Premiere Edition Printing 2
Stargate SG-1 Season 4 Printing 3
Stargate SG-1 Season 5 Printing 4
Stargate SG-1 Season 6 Printing 5
Stargate SG-1 Season 7 Printing 6
Stargate SG-1 Season 8 Printing 7
Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Printing 8
Stargate SG-1 Season 10 Printing 9

I think in the future the filed will be renamed in cards to avoid the confusion of printings. Also, those cards that were reprinted and corrected would be treated as variants (A, B, C, etc) and the Printing/Series would remain the same.

Just my thoughts and understanding.


Following this logic, you create several issues that I can think of where the Stargate cards are concerned.

If you start the 'Printing' off with the Preview set - does the error card that was issued during that set, which caused a reprinted variant card (because it cannot accurrately be described as a variant alone, because it is a variant that needed to be made to correct an earlier mistake, rather than an additional version of that card), then make the reprinted variant the second printing?

If you say yes - how can you then go and make the Premiere Edition 'printing' 2? That reprinted variant and the Premiere Edition are clearly not in the same set - as shown by the title - but the 'printing' data as you have set forth above seems to indicate that they are. So then do you make the Premiere Edition 'printing' 3?

I think this is really more confusing and trouble then it's worth. I agree with SwiftMann, that each SEASON set should be a stand alone title.

I won't be entering any of the Season 6 Stargate cards until we have this settled, as this is going to completely throw off the sets and I'll need to do some figuring out to determine exactly where the 3 reprinted, corrected checklist variant cards from that set fall.

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Support bacteris! It's the only culture some people have. ~~ Anonymous
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Batman007
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:54:58 AM

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When Valiant returns he will definitely clear this up and give an answer.
petebyrnejr
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:09:32 PM

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SwiftMann wrote:
My 2c - I don't think "Season" cards should be considered in the same way that "Series" is. There's no distinction between the title of the various Marvel Universe cards, so a series indicator works for me. However, each Season creates a stand-alone title, therefore the printing field can be 1 each time.


Actually, if you incorporate "Series (insert number)" as part of the title (as noted on packs, boxes, and factory sets), the distinction is in the title. For example, these cards were not solicited as merely "Marvel Universe", they were always advertised and solicited with the distinction included. Also, in those sets, the markings on the cards distinguish them by including the year of issue into a Marvel or Marvel Universe logo on the face of the card.

I'm the best there is at what I do. But what I do best isn't very nice.

I don't want EVERYTHING, just ONE of everthing will do nicely.
The_Valiant_One
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:27:35 PM

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Hey Guys! Hop over to my thread "ASK THE VALIANT ONE" for my answer on the PRINTING debacle in STARGATE....
a_Kid_4_life
Posted: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:12:05 PM

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O.K. I have checked & nobody is doing my favorite cards (stickers) yet so I would like to claim the Odd Rod, Silly Cycles, Fiends & Machines. I know they are just like the comics I collect,all with a motor. I have most of them, & know where to get scans of those missing. I have a list of questions I am putting together that I will post later on today after I get a chance to read all the prior post. I just gave ita quick glance looking for the Odd Rods. I do have a quick question, are we going by the rule of if it is listed in the non-sports price guide it can be added on CCL? If so my list of questions might take longer.
ntkeith
Posted: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:47:35 PM

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a_Kid_4_life wrote:
O.K. I have checked & nobody is doing my favorite cards (stickers) yet so I would like to claim the Odd Rod, Silly Cycles, Fiends & Machines. I know they are just like the comics I collect,all with a motor. I have most of them, & know where to get scans of those missing. I have a list of questions I am putting together that I will post later on today after I get a chance to read all the prior post. I just gave ita quick glance looking for the Odd Rods. I do have a quick question, are we going by the rule of if it is listed in the non-sports price guide it can be added on CCL? If so my list of questions might take longer.


All non-sport, except for gaming cards, that seems to be the rule. Your sets are encouraged, come on in the club. Gaming is only on hold because it will be a separate section and needs more fields in the DB before that is opened. And sports just don't fit in the club, some revenge of us nerds to those jocks.

You've heard the legend, now see it come to life! I Want More Comics
a_Kid_4_life
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:51:26 PM

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Some of the cards I will be adding have Variant backs, How can I do this with only 1 image space per card?
I would think that at least card #1 would have 2 places to show an example of front & back. Some sets use the back as a way to know what set it is from.
Are drag racing cards considered non - sport? The cards from the 70's are listed in both the non - sports price guide & the Beckett.
If so there is 1 set that was made in U.S. with no #'s & made in Canada with them. The non - sports price guide list them alphabeticaly which is not how they are #ed. Would they go in by # first & the nn be a variant?
Just to make sure I am right the Odd Rods have 7 issues with 2 being reprints of earlier sets but were sold with different names for each, so I don't list them as series but by the names they were sold under.
I am confused about how packs / wrappers are added, could that be explained more clearly. I also feel there should be a place for each.
I also think that the boxes could use 2 os 3 places for images to show the different artwork on the sides.
These are some questions I need to be answered before I get going.
vacantpassenger
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:11:29 PM

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Question, Valiant:

Why is the multifold packaging/cardboard wrapping for the "Ladies of the Spirit" cards supposed to be added as #0 under the (Promo) title? I thought the packs were suppoed to be added to the standard title w/o a designation, no?

Batman007
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:22:52 PM

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Don't all questions for Valiant now go in THIS THREAD?
vacantpassenger
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:42:54 PM

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Batman007 wrote:
Don't all questions for Valiant now go in THIS THREAD?


I have no clue!

Had to do with trading cards so I figured I'd post here.

Batman007
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:56:43 PM

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I thought Valiant wanted to leave this for Guidelines and have all questions directed to the other thread as that's the one he checks and this is the one he updates.
vacantpassenger
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:05:22 PM

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Cool, I'll post there then. Haven't been to active w/ all the changes I want to make lately since finals are coming, so I'm a little out of date.

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