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Poll Question: Should newsstand editions be added to the CCL DB?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 15 33%
No 18 40%
Indifferent 12 26%

POLL: Newsstand edition comics Options
Jim
Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:45:26 PM

Rank: CCL Mobile App Dev
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Joined: 6/16/2007
Posts: 10,419
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"The results of this poll are for informational purposes only."

It's been three years since the last poll on the topic, which had very clear cut results.

10% 8 Yes, Directs and Newsstands are variants. Period.
69% 51 No, Directs and Newsstands are not variants.
19% 14 Maybe, but more discussion needs to happen.

However, at the request of the Approvers I've posted this poll for the general CCL populace to see where folks are currently at on the topic.

Since the choice fields don't allow for longer choice explanations here they are in detail

Yes - Same price Directs vs Newsstands should be separately listed in CCL as variants.

No - Same price Directs vs Newsstands should not be separately listed in CCL as variants.

Indifferent - I don't care one way of the other if same price Directs and Newsstands are separately listed in CCL.


It's important to understand that even though CCL's "Variant" field is supposed to be designate for actual variants, the topic of this poll isn't to decide whether or not a newsstand edition is a variant. Rather the poll is to get an idea for how many folks want to see newsstand editions added to the DB for completeness.

"The results of this poll are for informational purposes only."

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4saken1
Posted: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 10:55:07 PM

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I'm kinda on the fence about this one. If CCL doesn't want to designate these as variants, there needs to be some relatively easy way (like a pill box, or something) for Sellers to differentiate between the two so that Buyers who want them can find them. If CCL does eventually decide to add them as a variant, it would be nice if there was a way for Sellers to insert a run without including every variant also.

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Xylob
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:47:09 AM

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4saken1 wrote:
...If CCL does eventually decide to add them as a variant, it would be nice if there was a way for Sellers to insert a run without including every variant also.
If CCL does eventually decide to add them as a variant, it would be nice if there was a way for all users to insert a run without including every variant also.
Of course, that's something that would be nice right now...

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freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:12:28 AM

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While I voted yes and would love to see them added simply because it makes the DB better. It gives buyers one more thing available to purchase.

On the downside it also means a ton of work for stores and collectors like me who then have to go through the software and hide them all, and no I dont collect newsstands just prefer if everything was available on ccl.


Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



BruceReville
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:47:35 AM

Rank: Watcher
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10% 8 Yes, Directs and Newsstands are variants. Period.
69% 51 No, Directs and Newsstands are not variants.
19% 14 Maybe, but more discussion needs to happen.


Observation: Just 3 years ago there were this many people roaming these boards? And for most polls you can count on at a minimum of 50% participation so the number might have been higher? With what I have seen on these boards lately we couldn't reach 30% of those numbers.

Ok now unto the subject at hand:

I voted the "Eh" option. I myself collect both versions but not on all titles. Just those I am really anal about. Would it be nice - yes - Would it be a pain in the ass - definately - Should it be added to the database - no.

The undertaking would be huge and if we are doing newstand than go ahead and add in UK Pricing variants as well - there are already sparce listings showing UK Pricing but not all of them - whay not go ahead and complete that as well - then add Canadian pricing - Whitman Bags - Dollar Tree/Dollar General Bags -- see it can become a really slippery slope really, really fast. If a seller has it as any of the above mentioned samples and wants to add it so he can sell it as such than let them add that version. Other than that I say no to adding it to the database, but would I like to see it - Heck Yeah!

The collector in me is doing a jig while the logical side of me says "Are you out of you bleeping mind?"

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Collect Again --- VARIANTS STRIKE!



freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:56:00 AM

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BruceReville wrote:

The undertaking would be huge and if we are doing newstand than go ahead and add in UK Pricing variants as well - there are already sparce listings showing UK Pricing but not all of them - whay not go ahead and complete that as well - then add Canadian pricing - Whitman Bags - Dollar Tree/Dollar General Bags -- see it can become a really slippery slope really, really fast.


Uk price variants are already allowed and used on CCL
Canadian price variants again allowed
Whitmans already allowed
Dollar tree comics allowed
Dollar general allowed




Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



BruceReville
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:13:19 AM

Rank: Watcher
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Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 996
Points: 2,988
freakdylan wrote:
BruceReville wrote:

The undertaking would be huge and if we are doing newstand than go ahead and add in UK Pricing variants as well - there are already sparce listings showing UK Pricing but not all of them - whay not go ahead and complete that as well - then add Canadian pricing - Whitman Bags - Dollar Tree/Dollar General Bags -- see it can become a really slippery slope really, really fast.


Uk price variants are already allowed and used on CCL
Canadian price variants again allowed
Whitmans already allowed
Dollar tree comics allowed
Dollar general allowed



I understand that but the listings are not complete - why not complete what is allowed before starting yet another project that may also go uncompleted

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Collect Again --- VARIANTS STRIKE!



freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:17:53 AM

Rank: Watcher
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Joined: 6/4/2012
Posts: 929
Points: 6,271
BruceReville wrote:


I understand that but the listings are not complete - why not complete what is allowed before starting yet another project that may also go uncompleted


lol, they arent complete because nobody has added them. CCL's DB is dependent on people like me and you buying that UK variant, scanning it, then uploading it for approval. it takes time and lots and lots of it. Which means the longer CCl goes before allowing newsstands the longer it will take to finish.

That shouldnt stop CCL from allowing other types of variants, covers etc.

However Bruce you did make me ponder a question i will ask in a seperate thread about variants inclusion into DB.




Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



icarus201
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:57:20 AM

Rank: Beyonder
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freakdylan wrote:
BruceReville wrote:


I understand that but the listings are not complete - why not complete what is allowed before starting yet another project that may also go uncompleted


lol, they arent complete because nobody has added them. CCL's DB is dependent on people like me and you buying that UK variant, scanning it, then uploading it for approval. it takes time and lots and lots of it. Which means the longer CCl goes before allowing newsstands the longer it will take to finish.

That shouldnt stop CCL from allowing other types of variants, covers etc.

However Bruce you did make me ponder a question i will ask in a seperate thread about variants inclusion into DB.


You'll find that all UK price variants of Marvel and DC end at 1981 (Sep for DC, Dec for Marvel) . There are a finite number of issues published in this form. With Marvel, it could be any period from 1961 - 81, but in the DC case, mostly 1978 - 81. I've added personally 90% of the UK variants that currently exist in the db from my own collection. It's taken me about 5 years, and I recently started to add my DC collections.

EDIT: Not to mention that not every title was UK distributed, and sometimes there were gaps in the runs between titles. If issues were double-sized, then they almost never were UK priced. A particular gap is between Mar 1974 and Aug 74, when the UK variants for Marvel would next be published with the banner, "Marvel All-Colour Comics" to diffrentiate them from the Marvel UK line of b&w reprint titles.


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SwiftMann
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 11:41:19 AM

Rank: Beyonder
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After the first twelve hours or so, 24 votes.

Yes 7 29%
No 9 37%
Indifferent 8 33%


Just tracking from a total voters perspective to see where we stall out. The original poll had 73 votes, but I'm pretty sure 20+ of those came weeks after it originally went up.

"Words have meaning." - my wife
Tamwood
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:04:50 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

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I'm really torn with this issue.

As a collector, I don't give a crap. I order the book, it arrives, I add it to the database. I personally hide all the "non-variant variants" like UK/Canadian prices and, yes, newsstand issues listed differently in my DB.

I don't think there's a huge market, aside from the 2-3 people here who have a major obscession with them. I think it'll be a LOT of extra work for stores, and I really think it might drive some stores away, because of not wanting to sort their books, and spend the money to re-list them.

I realize it's only a penny to list a book. But if you've got a 30,000 book collection, and there's 2,000 newsstand books strewn throughout, that's $200 they've gotta pony-up up front.

BurningDoom
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:45:13 PM

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I REALLY don't understand the mentality here for those that don't want it added. It comes off as selfish to me.

What I mean is that I can completely understand that some collector's don't care about the difference. Generally, I don't. I just want a copy that I can read.

But because you (or I) don't care, why should those that DO CARE not get the separation? If it's helpful for any collector or seller, shouldn't CCL be trying to cater them? Don't we want more collectors and sellers here?

Just to throw it out there, Mile High Comics website separates them, and they have the highest selling comic website out there.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
Tamwood
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:13:16 PM

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Mile High may seperate them, but they also a) have ownership that at least pays enough attention to the site to dictate that they should be included and b) have them for outrageous prices because very few people care, and those that do might just be crazy enough to pay $40 for a $2 book because it's got a different barcode.

To me, it's more economic. They aren't currently seperated, and those stores that have 20,000+ comics ... it's a nightmare for them. To go through all those books, looking for a newsstand cover, which will cost them more in time and, collectively, money than it's worth to supply one book to one person.

You don't have a store, so it doesn't really effect you. I don't personally have a store, either, but I do a lot of the CCL listing for a store here, so it does effect me.

The store I work for has almost 32,000 books listed. I can't even imagine having to sort through 32,000 books to find maybe a hundred that are newsstand, much less the 114,000 books BAMF has, the 108,000 that PTGGRTS has, or even Pat's 49,000 books.

After sorting through 32,000 books, we'd have to delist them all. We'd have to add the newsstands, and re-grade them (or at least copy the grades over). We've have to upload them (there's $10). And he'd have to pay me, which I'm guessing would take more than an hour or two. I'm guessing at least a week's worth of time to search through all the books.

It's gonna cost my store owner at least $100, if not more, to search through a bunch of books, to list a few $1.00 books, that MAYBE 1-2 people on here might need 1 or 2 books.

And if he doesn't sort through 32,000 books and few newsstand copies go out as direct editions -- complaints.

It's a no-win situation for the bigger store owners here.

To me. Personally. They are not variants. The UPC box is NOT a big enough change in the cover art to be a variant. To me. Personally. The UK and Canadian price differences are not variants. To me. Personaly. A difference in paper quality is not enough to be a variant. But as an Approver, I go along with the company line, which says the foreign pricing, or paper quality does make it a variant.
SwiftMann
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:46:20 PM

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BurningDoom wrote:
But because you (or I) don't care, why should those that DO CARE not get the separation?

Simple. Cost versus benefit.

Whether that's users reorganizing their collections, stores having to spend money to relist or submitters and approvers spending time adding them. There's a lot of real dollar and time costs that may not benefit a reasonable number of people (the vocal super-minority here is not a reasonable number of people).

In my mind, the poll is intended to find interest exclusive of the other factors. All other factors removed, I'd love to have directs and newsstands as separate entries, so I voted Yes.

In reality, I don't know that it's worth it.

"Words have meaning." - my wife
BurningDoom
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 3:54:04 PM

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Well then the problem isn't Newstand vs. Direct, the problem is CCL's fees, it sounds like to me.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
Jim
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 4:06:45 PM

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The poll isn't about whether newsstands are variants or not.

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Xylob
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:21:09 PM

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I'm with Swiftly, I've "argued against" numerous times in the past here, but I voted YES.
My personal view as a collector has always been that they should be listed/entered separately, and regularly argued "for" their inclusion - until I became an approver.

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!
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Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
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You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...

Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
freakdylan
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:32:33 PM

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Tamwood wrote:
Mile High may seperate them, but they also a) have ownership that at least pays enough attention to the site to dictate that they should be included and b) have them for outrageous prices because very few people care, and those that do might just be crazy enough to pay $40 for a $2 book because it's got a different barcode.

To me, it's more economic. They aren't currently seperated, and those stores that have 20,000+ comics ... it's a nightmare for them. To go through all those books, looking for a newsstand cover, which will cost them more in time and, collectively, money than it's worth to supply one book to one person.

You don't have a store, so it doesn't really effect you. I don't personally have a store, either, but I do a lot of the CCL listing for a store here, so it does effect me.

The store I work for has almost 32,000 books listed. I can't even imagine having to sort through 32,000 books to find maybe a hundred that are newsstand, much less the 114,000 books BAMF has, the 108,000 that PTGGRTS has, or even Pat's 49,000 books.

After sorting through 32,000 books, we'd have to delist them all. We'd have to add the newsstands, and re-grade them (or at least copy the grades over). We've have to upload them (there's $10). And he'd have to pay me, which I'm guessing would take more than an hour or two. I'm guessing at least a week's worth of time to search through all the books.

It's gonna cost my store owner at least $100, if not more, to search through a bunch of books, to list a few $1.00 books, that MAYBE 1-2 people on here might need 1 or 2 books.

And if he doesn't sort through 32,000 books and few newsstand copies go out as direct editions -- complaints.

It's a no-win situation for the bigger store owners here.


You are basing this on the assumption that if approved all 50,000+ newstands would be added in one day. When in reality maybe a few would be added daily. So yea it is a little work but not like you are projecting. So everyday you might have to go check 5-6 comics to see if they are newsstands and add them.


Thanks to the following sellers for helping me put together my complete run of Amazing Spider-man #1-700

ComicCastle
TreeHouse
Hall Of Heroes
Thundercron's Longbox
DrumCzar


Now for the sellers helping me finish my TMNT collection:

Hall Of Heroes
Green Bay Comics



outcast
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:19:53 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 473
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Tamwood wrote:
.
.
.
I realize it's only a penny to list a book. But if you've got a 30,000 book collection, and there's 2,000 newsstand books strewn throughout, that's $200 they've gotta pony-up up front.

I'm sure it was never Tamwood's intent to misrepresent the cost of relisting newsstand comics. Lest anyone take his calculation at face value, though, and base a decision on it, I would like to point out that 1¢ × 2000 books = $20.00.

Really, though, I would hope that the site would waive fees for any relists arising from separation of newsstands from directs, just as I hope the site now waives relists that become necessary due to changes in Library data (e.g., the recent specification of flip covers on Warstrike #1).
Tamwood
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:22:48 PM

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Which is an even WORSE situation, because there's no way to know WHICH books have been added in a given time frame. I know we don't have any foreign pricing in our store, so I just ignore and hide all those new additions, but I do know there are bound to be some newsstand versions in our store.

You're saying that I should check every title in our store's database to see if any newsstands books have been added in a given time frame, and hope I can remember which issues we've already gone through every day/week/whatever?

From a completist's viewpoint, I think they should be added. From a store employee's viewpoint, it's not worth it. I voted No.
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