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So, let me get this straight... Options
dunleavy75
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 4:37:02 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 12,236
Points: 39,729
Location: south/central/east/west PA
You know, I try to keep pretty positive even when a vast majority of people on here are very saddened by the lack of action by management/ownership. I try to put a positive spin on things, and not pile on when people get angry, and say things I'm sure they regret later.

I've got to admit that I've seen DAYS go by with questions, complaints, people get very nasty with others that borderlines on vicious attacks that some forums would give a lifetime ban to, and not a peep is heard from management/ownership.

Two days ago a thread was started, and I think in all honesty, it was started to try and light a fire under management/ownership to make this site a better place to buy/sell/catalog, and was not malicious in its intent in my opinion. But within TWO DAYS the owner shows up and basically threatens said person with legal action? Are we to believe this was just a coincidence?

So, let me get this straight. People can ask legitimate questions, and practically beg ownership to show a presence, and answer questions and give feedback, and that goes unanswered for days on end BUT when someone brings up the subject of a competing site (not 100% seriously, in my opinion) within 48 hours the owner posts about legal action, violating rules, and so on?

WOW, no disrespect, but that seems to go against certain principles I was lead to believe that management/ownership had as human beings. Am I wrong? Sigh





Shop at - ComicsCastle - AlphaComics - TreeHouse
spacecitycomics
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:23:27 PM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/18/2007
Posts: 327
Points: 1,453
Location: Space City USA
Having just spent a few minutes catching up on the events of
the past few days, I think once Joe gets his temper under control
he will see that his outburst in the locked thread was a bit over
the top. It is understandable that Joe got pizzed off, as his
property was criticized, and has been for well over a year now.
But, an open sore will always be tender, and get picked at.
Now, I do not know how business operates in the tech / web development
business, but I can assure you that just like in comic book sales,
everyone has a better attitude and a smile on their face when sales
are booming, and when they are not, folks attitudes go into the turlet,
and frowns and scowels are the norm. In sales, we question a manager.
Why are sales down ? Why are our customers mad ? Why have we lost customers and why are they not being replaced ?
Joe appearring once a month or so, and selling the sellers on future
sunshine and star sprinkles is one thing, but advertising, advertising,
and advertising to your sellers is wrong. There should be advertising,
advertising, and advertising to the sites buyers. I don't see that
happening. I see CCL relying on it's sellers to do the advertising.
Thousands of "free auction" sites have tried that type of grass root
game plan. Only very few, very select sites have worked. And they are
driven by a leader that has hands on the process every day, every day,
every day. Once the leader looses interest, the site falls apart.
I think that has happened here. I no longer think the owner and
management are interested in this site. I think it is very much
on the back burner.
CrossbowComics
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 6:31:54 PM

Rank: Watcher
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Hi Billy, thanks for the support. We got their attention didn't we? My personal opinion is if something new is really coming soon it'll be water under the bridge, we'd all wind up staying anyway. If on the flip side there's nothing coming then he may decide he doesn't want to deal with me for the next 1-2-3 years. Either way it's ok, the Treehouse will live on. I knew I was pushing buttons and I accept full responsiblility for that.

Phil, are you on vaca? I haven't seen your store for a while.




future home - TreehouseComicShop.com


BurningDoom
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 6:46:30 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Beta, Guru, Member, Moderator, Movies Host, Subscriber, TV Host

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Yeah, I saw that happening. That's like going into Pizza Hut, and having Dominoes Pizza deliver you a pizza. They aren't gonna stand for that, same as CCL won't stand for people talking about opening a rival site on their own boards.

Now, that's not to say that excuses their negligent behavior towards customer's concerns and their continual lies for years on end now about how things are coming. That's all a bunch of B.S. and frankly we're all sick of being led along at this point.

But still, I saw that thread being closed coming a mile away.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
MoonKnight1
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 6:53:57 PM

Rank: Celestial
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I would like to state that I support Doug (Treehouse - CrossbowComics) and I urge CCL management to be lenient with any disciplinary action that may be imposed upon him.

He is a Member in good standing (since 2008) and has almost 1,400 Hero Ratings. Doug has been a consistent presence and is a valuable contributor to this site. I'm sure that I am not the only one here who has respect for him.

The Thread That Has Been Locked was initiated out of frustration I believe. The people who are still here are still here because they care about CCL. Steve, Joe, I know you care about the site as well but there needs to be more communication to the membership so that we can see your involvement and commitment.

Can we have more frequent notifications about the progress of the upcoming improvements? Can we do another Conference Call?

There should be no need to stifle dissent. When you have people who have been ardent supporters starting to sour then there is a serious problem. The best way to mitigate this would be a more visible presence by ownership.

This is an easy problem to fix.

Howie Hall

Fantastic News! Hall of Heroes has now surpassed 600 Hero Ratings! I couldn't have done it without all of you and I will strive to maintain and improve my high standards. Which brings me to my next announcement - starting now, all shipments will come with tracking at no extra charge to you! I'm a little late to the party but as they say - better late than never. You spoke and I heard you loud and clear. Excelsior!



Hall Liquidations


BurningDoom
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 6:55:38 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Beta, Guru, Member, Moderator, Movies Host, Subscriber, TV Host

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Why do we even need some secretive conference call? To me that just screams that we're getting led along some more. If it was really happening, then what would it hurt to make a public announcement? That is, unless it's not really happening and they don't want to make a black & white statement for everyone to see and point to.

I mean it hasn't been weeks since this was promised, it hasn't even been months, it's been a few years now. That's not "development time".

At this point it's hard not believe we're just getting smoke blown up our you know what.

And yeah, someone finally has enough of the B.S. and says something and look what happens. It's not like he didn't try to reach out and call problems to CCL's attention, either.

Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here
Flagwaver
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:06:35 PM

Rank: Eternal
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/2/2010
Posts: 214
Points: 33,197
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Not being a seller, I did not comment in the other thread and wanted to see just how long it would take before the powers the be said something. I cannot say I was surprised that three days went by before Joe or Steve said something because they obviously do not pay much attention to the forums. Of course, instead of thinking about why such a thread was started in the first place, Joe threw a hissy fit and made outlandish threats. Nothing discussed in that thread revealed anything about the confidential operations of the company, so Joe needs to get a grasp on reality and get off his high horse.

I just renewed my subscription for another year and it is most likely the last time do so. I've grown tired of the blatant indifference by the owners of this site and their empty promises. It has been over TWO YEARS since they solicited from us what we would like to see for the website and software. In that two years, out of the dozens of suggestions we provided, the ONLY one they have implemented is being able to buy without having the page refresh. Except for that, all we have gotten is empty promises of things further and further down the road. Something comes up, like CCL gift shop, and the pitchforks and torches come out. Joe says they will pay more attention to us and be better at communicating what is going on and none of that happens. How often has Joe posted anything of note in the forums after promising regular communications? How many of those conference calls have happened? You can only continue to make empty promises for so long before you become a joke.

What galls me the most is that CCL could be a great site and program if the owners simply gave a damn. Joe can say how much he loves the hobby till he is blue in the face but nothing he has done supports that. CCL seems to be forgotten stepchild of the parent company and the only time they show any interest is when we raise a stink and they come out to act indignant.
outcast
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:23:34 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Newsstand Edition Host

Joined: 7/28/2012
Posts: 474
Points: 2,010
There is a dynamic at work here that I find interesting.

The Library, essential to the functioning of this site and (IMO) responsible for a significant portion of the value of this site as a business, is maintained on a volunteer basis (i.e., the owner pays nothing for contributions to its content).

Yet when those volunteers give voice to frustrations arising from failure of the business to advance the site's capabilities and to provide reasonable services, the owner expresses outrage, because this site, and the business behind it, is his, ALL his.

As Neil Gaiman once notably observed, "This isn't equitable."
teh_longinator
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:02:19 PM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/1/2012
Posts: 318
Points: 954
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I'd support Treehouse if they leave. If that's what this is all about. I haven't seen the other thread, but I completely support any stores that go out and try to make it on their own. CCL's income is directly funded by the membership fees, and the income of the store owners. But, CCL doesn't appreciate this, and frankly, probably doesn't care to realize it, since they are a part of a larger scam.

For CCL to threaten legal action over a guy saying he's jumping ship is just an admission of their lack of skill and knowledge as a business. They're going to lose Treehouse (assuming that's who we're talking about)... And Treehouse is a large chunk of their income. Treehouse leaves, CCL loses a chunk of cash. However... Suing the people who are in charge of earning you your income is just stupid.

Basically, I'll support anyone who goes up and starts off on their own sites. CCL has been throwing out empty promises for years, and it's time that people say enough is enough. CCL is run off of VOLUNTEERS, and THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WORK TO RUN THEIR STORES! Those are what earn the money. The people sitting at GoLoco Media aren't doing squat in all this, and making the rewards.

Edit: Just read it. I find it funny how the term "everyday business" is brought up by someone who only makes an appearance around here once in a blue moon....

Cave Comics
I buy comics so that I can sell comics, to buy more comics.

Check out my eBay listings at http://www.ebay.ca/sch/tehlonginator/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
Thundercron
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:12:40 AM

Rank: Celestial
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Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 2,589
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
teh_longinator wrote:
I'd support Treehouse if they leave. If that's what this is all about. I haven't seen the other thread, but I completely support any stores that go out and try to make it on their own. CCL's income is directly funded by the membership fees, and the income of the store owners. But, CCL doesn't appreciate this, and frankly, probably doesn't care to realize it, since they are a part of a larger scam.

For CCL to threaten legal action over a guy saying he's jumping ship is just an admission of their lack of skill and knowledge as a business.


I'm sorry....scam?? I can understand CCL being accused of a lot of things, but I'm not sure scam-artists is one of them.

As for Joe threatening legal action...sure, he can threaten it. If you set up a store here and agree to certain terms and conditions, and you break those conditions, he has every right to come after you. True, I don't think any lawsuit would stick, since I think Joe would have to prove that Treehouse breaking the terms and conditions caused CCL to lose revenue, and I'm pretty much 100% sure that didn't happen. A competing cite didn't open, and it would be hard to prove that the thread in question caused people to not use the CCL services in some way.

But I see where Joe is coming from. I think people here get the personal side of Joe (as well as the personal side of CCL) mixed up with the business side. This is a business. Putting the kibosh on a thread talking about competing with CCL was a business move, and anyone that can think clearly would realize that. The original post on this thread ended with the line that what Joe did "seems to go against certain principles I was lead to believe that management/ownership had as human beings."

This has nothing to do with "principles" that ownership had as "human beings." This is a business. Someone started a conversation that could threaten that business. Joe dealt with it in a swift way to make sure it wouldn't happen again. End of story. Everyone needs to stop acting so offended.
lbej
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:51:10 AM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Moderator, Subscriber

Joined: 6/7/2009
Posts: 329
Points: 987
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Thundercron wrote:

This has nothing to do with "principles" that ownership had as "human beings." This is a business. Someone started a conversation that could threaten that business. Joe dealt with it in a swift way to make sure it wouldn't happen again. End of story. Everyone needs to stop acting so offended.


It wasn't dealt with swiftly--that thread was open for days--but otherwise I have to agree. I say 'have to' because the larger issues haven't been addressed. The fact that the database is maintained by volunteers whose expectations aren't being met is problematic, to say the least. If those folks get fed up and walk away--no matter where they go or why they leave--CCL will take a big hit. Here are three questions I can't answer:

1. What has management actually promised in terms of dates and deliverables?

2. What do long-time indispensable members of the CCL user base expect in terms of dates and deliverables?(I'm talking about approvers, database contributors, high-volume sellers and buyers--everyone matters, but not everyone can damage the business by leaving.)

3. What does management intend to deliver and when?

If expectations and intentions aren't aligned, every spark of discontent has the potential to burn the house down. Users shouldn't act offended, but neither should management act surprised.



Please make sure you read and understand the forum rules here
yourplace2
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:55:25 AM

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So how are your sales doing? Nuf said!Boo Hoo!

Join the store on FACEBOOK!



* All items must be returned prior to refund at your expense. Return shipping not refunded.



b0bafett
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:05:34 AM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Guru, Member

Joined: 2/23/2007
Posts: 1,469
Points: 4,689
Quote:
Steve, Joe, I know you care about the site as well but there needs to be more communication to the membership so that we can see your involvement and commitment.

Can we have more frequent notifications about the progress of the upcoming improvements? Can we do another Conference Call?


Pretty much they are more worried on what's posted on there facebook page then they are here. If you post a issue on facebook they delete it asap, but if you post it on ccl they never see it
lbej
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:08:20 AM

Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member, Moderator, Subscriber

Joined: 6/7/2009
Posts: 329
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Location: North Carolina
yourplace2 wrote:
So how are your sales doing? Nuf said!Boo Hoo!


Not sure if this is targeted at me, but if so, it's way off-base. I don't sell here or anywhere else, and I've never claimed to represent that side of the market. My CCL purchases are consistently fantastic, though, and I don't have issues with CCL's functionality on the buy-side. That's why I'm still here.

The best sellers, selection, and prices are here, too. The problem is that this site is too hard to find. CCL will not grow at a rate that attracts more sellers and allows management to fund the changes the existing base wants. Mile High, mycomicshop, Newkadia, TFAW, Midtown and Westfield dominate search engine results, and beyond the first two I listed, the back issue selection and shopping experiences those sites offer are much weaker than what's available here. If management is going to spend money on CCL, I'd want it to be focused on buying search keywords and other steps to move CCL from the fifth page (at best) in Google search results to the second or third. Make the pie bigger and the problems are easier to address.



Please make sure you read and understand the forum rules here
yourplace2
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:45:20 AM

Rank: Large Noggin
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Posts: 392
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lbej wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
So how are your sales doing? Nuf said!Boo Hoo!


Not sure if this is targeted at me, but if so, it's way off-base. I don't sell here or anywhere else, and I've never claimed to represent that side of the market. My CCL purchases are consistently fantastic, though, and I don't have issues with CCL's functionality on the buy-side. That's why I'm still here.

The best sellers, selection, and prices are here, too. The problem is that this site is too hard to find. CCL will not grow at a rate that attracts more sellers and allows management to fund the changes the existing base wants. Mile High, mycomicshop, Newkadia, TFAW, Midtown and Westfield dominate search engine results, and beyond the first two I listed, the back issue selection and shopping experiences those sites offer are much weaker than what's available here. If management is going to spend money on CCL, I'd want it to be focused on buying search keywords and other steps to move CCL from the fifth page (at best) in Google search results to the second or third. Make the pie bigger and the problems are easier to address.



It was directed at the whiners.

The success of each store and seller on here is their own issue, but they blame CCL. They want CCL to bring buyers, and the whiners suggest ways they should be doing that.

I have made this point before to the complainers on here. They are looking at the CCL relationship improperly. It should be looked at the same way you would look at a relationship with a brick and mortar landlord. You rent the space from the landlord. You and the landlord agree to specific terms of what comes with the rental fee. You get space, electricity, heat, security, things to make your storefront work day to day. The land lord provides what is agreed. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS THE WAY IT IS!

You can't say to the landlord, "Now that I pay a monthly fee to you, advertise my business for me to get more customers here!"

CCL is a software database application you get free, it comes with upgrades, like a storefront way to sell and trade. No where did I ever agree that CCL would bring my customers to me, nor did I expect that. There is a natural connection that aids selling and buying, but it is not the driving agreement for my monthly upgrade fee.

Being the owner of a storefront (or a tenant renting space there) it is my own responsiblility to my own goals, to find buyers of my product. Just as it is for each other seller on here. If there are 1000 stores here, each one should take it on their own to bring traffic here. Not the 1 landlord.

If 1000 stores drive traffic here, we will all do very well I'm sure.

Now that sure was a huge difference from "nuf said! Forgive me.

Join the store on FACEBOOK!



* All items must be returned prior to refund at your expense. Return shipping not refunded.



KingZombie
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:10:27 AM

Rank: Celestial
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Posts: 4,543
Points: 90,058
yourplace2 wrote:
lbej wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
So how are your sales doing? Nuf said!Boo Hoo!


Not sure if this is targeted at me, but if so, it's way off-base. I don't sell here or anywhere else, and I've never claimed to represent that side of the market. My CCL purchases are consistently fantastic, though, and I don't have issues with CCL's functionality on the buy-side. That's why I'm still here.

The best sellers, selection, and prices are here, too. The problem is that this site is too hard to find. CCL will not grow at a rate that attracts more sellers and allows management to fund the changes the existing base wants. Mile High, mycomicshop, Newkadia, TFAW, Midtown and Westfield dominate search engine results, and beyond the first two I listed, the back issue selection and shopping experiences those sites offer are much weaker than what's available here. If management is going to spend money on CCL, I'd want it to be focused on buying search keywords and other steps to move CCL from the fifth page (at best) in Google search results to the second or third. Make the pie bigger and the problems are easier to address.



It was directed at the whiners.

The success of each store and seller on here is their own issue, but they blame CCL. They want CCL to bring buyers, and the whiners suggest ways they should be doing that.

I have made this point before to the complainers on here. They are looking at the CCL relationship improperly. It should be looked at the same way you would look at a relationship with a brick and mortar landlord. You rent the space from the landlord. You and the landlord agree to specific terms of what comes with the rental fee. You get space, electricity, heat, security, things to make your storefront work day to day. The land lord provides what is agreed. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS THE WAY IT IS!

You can't say to the landlord, "Now that I pay a monthly fee to you, advertise my business for me to get more customers here!"

CCL is a software database application you get free, it comes with upgrades, like a storefront way to sell and trade. No where did I ever agree that CCL would bring my customers to me, nor did I expect that. There is a natural connection that aids selling and buying, but it is not the driving agreement for my monthly upgrade fee.

Being the owner of a storefront (or a tenant renting space there) it is my own responsiblility to my own goals, to find buyers of my product. Just as it is for each other seller on here. If there are 1000 stores here, each one should take it on their own to bring traffic here. Not the 1 landlord.

If 1000 stores drive traffic here, we will all do very well I'm sure.

Now that sure was a huge difference from "nuf said! Forgive me.


There are many reasons why sellers on here have legitimate reasons to complain about CCL’s participation but I’ll just use one simple argument to destroy your analogy of CCL merely being the “landlord”.

Landlords don’t take a commission of your sales. They simply charge rent.
padreglcc
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:11:16 AM

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yourplace2 wrote:
It was directed at the whiners.


Just a friendly reminder to everyone: please be very careful about personal attack and/or name-calling on the boards. I don't think the above comment qualifies since it doesn't appear to be directed at an individual, just wanted to encourage all of us to be courteous to each other.

On that same line, there has been quite a bit of what is, in my opinion, slander and mud-slinging directed at Joe. I can certainly understand feeling let down, even feeling that you have been lied to. But several times I have seen Joe/management referred to as a liar, which is a personal attack rather than a statement of feeling/perception. I ask that the same courtesy we strive to extend to each other in the forums be extended to Joe as well. If you have a problem with policy/management/operations/etc., please direct your comments at that, not at a personal attack.

“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” ~ Bryant H. McGill

Please make sure you read and understand the Forum Rules here.
lbej
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:17:16 AM

Rank: Large Noggin
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yourplace2 wrote:

I have made this point before to the complainers on here. They are looking at the CCL relationship improperly. It should be looked at the same way you would look at a relationship with a brick and mortar landlord. You rent the space from the landlord. You and the landlord agree to specific terms of what comes with the rental fee. You get space, electricity, heat, security, things to make your storefront work day to day. The land lord provides what is agreed. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS THE WAY IT IS!


Your comparison is a stretch. A landlord provides space and basic services at a pre-determined fixed price, whereas CCL directly generates revenue from sales that are made on their 'property.' Increasing traffic to the site directly benefits CCL and increases revenue to CCL, not only in the form of commissions on sales but also by boosting the site's Alexa score and the rates that CCL can charge advertisers. You are absolutely correct that CCL has no obligation to advertise and that complaining about a failure to do so isn't reasonable. There is a difference, though, between complaining and suggesting ways to increase the size of the pie for everyone, CCL included. Because CCL isn't obligated to make efforts to raise its position in search engine results doesn't mean it wouldn't be in the company's best interest to do so.


Please make sure you read and understand the forum rules here
teh_longinator
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:15:46 AM

Rank: Large Noggin
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Posts: 318
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Thundercron wrote:
teh_longinator wrote:
I'd support Treehouse if they leave. If that's what this is all about. I haven't seen the other thread, but I completely support any stores that go out and try to make it on their own. CCL's income is directly funded by the membership fees, and the income of the store owners. But, CCL doesn't appreciate this, and frankly, probably doesn't care to realize it, since they are a part of a larger scam.

For CCL to threaten legal action over a guy saying he's jumping ship is just an admission of their lack of skill and knowledge as a business.


I'm sorry....scam?? I can understand CCL being accused of a lot of things, but I'm not sure scam-artists is one of them.

As for Joe threatening legal action...sure, he can threaten it. If you set up a store here and agree to certain terms and conditions, and you break those conditions, he has every right to come after you. True, I don't think any lawsuit would stick, since I think Joe would have to prove that Treehouse breaking the terms and conditions caused CCL to lose revenue, and I'm pretty much 100% sure that didn't happen. A competing cite didn't open, and it would be hard to prove that the thread in question caused people to not use the CCL services in some way.

But I see where Joe is coming from. I think people here get the personal side of Joe (as well as the personal side of CCL) mixed up with the business side. This is a business. Putting the kibosh on a thread talking about competing with CCL was a business move, and anyone that can think clearly would realize that. The original post on this thread ended with the line that what Joe did "seems to go against certain principles I was lead to believe that management/ownership had as human beings."

This has nothing to do with "principles" that ownership had as "human beings." This is a business. Someone started a conversation that could threaten that business. Joe dealt with it in a swift way to make sure it wouldn't happen again. End of story. Everyone needs to stop acting so offended.


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that CCL was a scam. I just don't trust internet "marketing" companies, such as the one that CCL is a subsidiary of. Internet marketing and honesty rarely meet, and the fact that I feel as though we've all been strung along isn't helping that feeling.

Cave Comics
I buy comics so that I can sell comics, to buy more comics.

Check out my eBay listings at http://www.ebay.ca/sch/tehlonginator/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:38:08 AM

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yourplace2 wrote:
lbej wrote:
yourplace2 wrote:
So how are your sales doing? Nuf said!Boo Hoo!


Not sure if this is targeted at me, but if so, it's way off-base. I don't sell here or anywhere else, and I've never claimed to represent that side of the market. My CCL purchases are consistently fantastic, though, and I don't have issues with CCL's functionality on the buy-side. That's why I'm still here.

The best sellers, selection, and prices are here, too. The problem is that this site is too hard to find. CCL will not grow at a rate that attracts more sellers and allows management to fund the changes the existing base wants. Mile High, mycomicshop, Newkadia, TFAW, Midtown and Westfield dominate search engine results, and beyond the first two I listed, the back issue selection and shopping experiences those sites offer are much weaker than what's available here. If management is going to spend money on CCL, I'd want it to be focused on buying search keywords and other steps to move CCL from the fifth page (at best) in Google search results to the second or third. Make the pie bigger and the problems are easier to address.



It was directed at the whiners.

The success of each store and seller on here is their own issue, but they blame CCL. They want CCL to bring buyers, and the whiners suggest ways they should be doing that.

I have made this point before to the complainers on here. They are looking at the CCL relationship improperly. It should be looked at the same way you would look at a relationship with a brick and mortar landlord. You rent the space from the landlord. You and the landlord agree to specific terms of what comes with the rental fee. You get space, electricity, heat, security, things to make your storefront work day to day. The land lord provides what is agreed. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS THE WAY IT IS!

You can't say to the landlord, "Now that I pay a monthly fee to you, advertise my business for me to get more customers here!"

CCL is a software database application you get free, it comes with upgrades, like a storefront way to sell and trade. No where did I ever agree that CCL would bring my customers to me, nor did I expect that. There is a natural connection that aids selling and buying, but it is not the driving agreement for my monthly upgrade fee.

Being the owner of a storefront (or a tenant renting space there) it is my own responsiblility to my own goals, to find buyers of my product. Just as it is for each other seller on here. If there are 1000 stores here, each one should take it on their own to bring traffic here. Not the 1 landlord.

If 1000 stores drive traffic here, we will all do very well I'm sure.

Now that sure was a huge difference from "nuf said! Forgive me.


I'm not a seller. That's not what I'm "whining" about. I'm complaining that we've been promised the world for years now, and we've gotten jack(banned) except more lies about what's still coming.

And we get CCL for free? And it comes with upgrades? Both of those are news to me. I pay for CCL.

Like I said in my first post on this thread, though. I saw that thread getting shut-down coming. Thundercron is absolutely right. No business is going to stand for their competitors doing business on what is pretty much their property.

HOWEVER, the reasons why the discussion started is what's got me upset. Instead of addressing our complaints and grumblings (yet again), they just try to calm the storm, which is a storm of their own making. And it's not like he wasn't already trying to get their attention in another thread for while before starting the one in question. That thread being started WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF CCL MANAGEMENT'S NEGLIGENCE OF CUSTOMER'S CONCERNS, PERIOD. But what's new? This has been CCL's M.O. for the last few years. Their spam-business and brick & mortar comic shop take precedence over us, and it couldn't be more obvious at this point.

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