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DivideAndConquer
Thursday, March 06, 2014 1:42:25 PM
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Going through a recent stack of pickups I came across something that I don't know if it has ever been brought up.

The tag is labeled Homage Cover X-Men 136. Famous cover and it has been used as design by different artist. Hence the homage. The comic was release I. August 1980.

If you look at the cover for Super man's girlfriend 128 you will notice that the cover art is extremely simular. The depiction is the same. This comic has a publish date of December 1972.


http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/LiveData/Issue.aspx?id=5b263ec2-3dcc-4bd4-b804-87eaef8ec1f3

This is a full 8 years prior to the X MEN issue. The X men issue looks to be a copy of this very cover. Now I know that marvel and x men people will look at the the relevance of each issue and the x men issue being more of a "key issue", I am wondering what the rules are on Homages. Is it strictly off date or is it off of the keyness of the issue or popularity? I could land either way, but I have to side with date because I believe the concept of a cover should weigh more than the issues individual key.

Look forward to talking this one out.

Dylan

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chiller67
Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:05:37 PM
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These covers are all loosely based on Michaelangelo's "Pieta" sculpture which depicts a dead Christ being held in the arms of his mother, Mary.
I'm sure that predates them by a few hundred years lol.
They go all the way back to the 50's as far as I'm aware. I can't find the specific "first" time it was used in comics - an old sci-fi/monster comic IIRC.
In my opinion, for what it's worth, "Pieta" cover would be the most appropriate name for them.

Here's an article I managed to find with a quick google search

http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/comic_coverage/2007/04/comic_book_cove.html
jbeeman85
Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:09:53 PM
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It seems to be that X-Men is paying homage to the Superman cover. It is incredibly similar and the Superman cover came out about 8 years earlier. But I see as I was typing this someone added a link to "Pieta" covers so I will side with chiller and say that they are all paying homage to that sculpture.
DivideAndConquer
Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:11:54 PM
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What was that.... MIND BLOWN... I can't believe I didn't make the correlation. You would think the minor in History I have would have helped make the correlation. Awesome info.

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icarus201
Thursday, March 06, 2014 4:28:00 PM
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I think a new tag for "Pieta" homage should be made for all those covers pre-dating X-Men #136 and Crisis #7.

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outcast
Thursday, March 06, 2014 9:52:35 PM
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Not to forget Conan the Barbarian 100 (July 1979).

DivideAndConquer
Thursday, March 06, 2014 10:53:47 PM
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icarus201 wrote:
I think a new tag for "Pieta" homage should be made for all those covers pre-dating X-Men #136 and Crisis #7.

How many votes need to happen for this to be "changed"?

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icarus201
Friday, March 07, 2014 7:06:52 AM
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DivideAndConquer wrote:
icarus201 wrote:
I think a new tag for "Pieta" homage should be made for all those covers pre-dating X-Men #136 and Crisis #7.

How many votes need to happen for this to be "changed"?

I've submitted the request;
http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/Change/ListItem_Edit.aspx?id=569c572f-fdb0-4c36-bd21-e44ead5cf6a1&class=4

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DivideAndConquer
Friday, March 07, 2014 7:13:09 AM
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Awesome. I have made my vote. Thanks everyone for some super information!!

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outcast
Friday, March 07, 2014 6:06:32 PM
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Eddy Current 6 (Feb. 1988) comes as close to the actual Pieta as any comic I can think of, right down to the nun's left hand.

icarus201
Friday, March 07, 2014 6:15:22 PM
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outcast wrote:
Eddy Current 6 (Feb. 1988) comes as close to the actual Pieta as any comic I can think of, right down to the nun's left hand.


You've never seen this?


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Thundercron
Friday, March 07, 2014 6:55:26 PM
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outcast wrote:
Not to forget Conan the Barbarian 100 (July 1979).



I don't know....so every time a character is holding a dead loved one in their arms like that, it's a homage to Pieta? Isn't it possible that some of these covers are just dudes holding dead bodies?

Here's one from the cover gallery above:



I just don't see it. He's holding Tarianna because she dies, and he spends several pages of the book talking to her while she's in The Thing's arms. I really don't think the cover artist thought, "Hey, I really liked that Pieta sculpture. I think I'll pay tribute to it on the cover."

My point is--all these should not be Pieta homage covers.
outcast
Friday, March 07, 2014 9:27:43 PM
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@ Thundercron:

Good point. My citation of the Conan cover may have been a step too far.

If Pieta tags were limited to deliberate, specific homages to the Michelangelo statue (Eddy Current, Death of Captain Marvel, and perhaps others not yet identified), I wouldn't complain.
padreglcc
Friday, March 07, 2014 10:06:09 PM
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outcast wrote:
@ Thundercron:

Good point. My citation of the Conan cover may have been a step too far.

If Pieta tags were limited to deliberate, specific homages to the Michelangelo statue (Eddy Current, Death of Captain Marvel, and perhaps others not yet identified), I wouldn't complain.


Harbinger (1992) #14 and Captain Atom (1998) #8 are other good examples of direct homages to the Pieta.





In general though, I think many covers, while perhaps paying respect the Pieta, aren't really homages of that cover. They're homages of either X-Men #136 or (as suggested earlier in the thread) of Lois Lane #128. I think that the X-Men book got the tag simply since it was a better known book. The tag should really either be changed to the Lois Lane book or at the very least shared between them. That's not to say that I'm against a Pieta tag, but just think it should be used pretty selectively.
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SwiftMann
Friday, March 07, 2014 10:38:48 PM
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I've seen the argument for a lot of "someone holding a dead body" covers to be homages to either the pieta or Uncanny.

I don't agree.

{I hate that these aren't showing side-by-side. Stupid forum dimensions.)



These two are almost identical images. From Superman's copied grimace to the direction of the head-cock to which leg is higher on the dead's body to the to the flatness of the feet. When you put these in separate tabs of a browser and flip back and forth, it's nearly identical.




As for these two, while similar they aren't the same. Inspired? Perhaps, but not a direct homage.

There's no question Crisis came from X-Men. And unless there's something somewhere stating that X-Men is from Lois Lane, I don't believe it's an assumption we make as there's only so many ways to draw "holding a dead body."
icarus201
Saturday, March 08, 2014 6:21:31 AM
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SwiftMann wrote:
As for these two, while similar they aren't the same. Inspired? Perhaps, but not a direct homage.

There's no question Crisis came from X-Men. And unless there's something somewhere stating that X-Men is from Lois Lane, I don't believe it's an assumption we make as there's only so many ways to draw "holding a dead body."









I have to disagree. I know you're a huge X-Men fan, but it's a little absurd to suggest that the Crisis cover was inspired by X-Men #136. It's clearly the Lois Lane #128 issue, which after all was 1972 and also features Superman. Look at the arrangement of the background characters too. The tag for X-Men #136 is a bit of a fudge as there were plenty of other covers similar to it published before.

Incidentally, I've asked George Perez on facebook, which of the two covers he took inspiration from.

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SwiftMann
Saturday, March 08, 2014 7:46:43 AM
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So, making an argument that the two central figures on Crisis are identically posed as those on X-Men is "absurd," but "they both have Superman" is reasonable? Right...
icarus201
Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:00:53 AM
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SwiftMann wrote:
So, making an argument that the two central figures on Crisis are identically posed as those on X-Men is "absurd," but "they both have Superman" is reasonable? Right...

Nope. You missed the point completely. I'm stating that it was more obvious that the Crisis cover was directly inspired from the Lois Lane cover because that precedes the X-Men cover by at least 8 years. Is it a co-incidence that both the DC covers feature Superman in an identical pose, but George was quoting John Byrne instead? Anyway, we'll see what Mr. Perez himself has to say when he gets back to me.

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