Log In Forums Help
Comic Collector Live
Home :: CCL Messageboard
Find Comics for Sale
Items For Sale
All Comics For Sale
New Releases
CGC Comics
Bundled Lots
Store Locator
Search Library
Search By Title
Publisher
Story Arc
Character
Credits
Release Date
Change Request Manager
News & Reviews
Reviews
News
Our Products and Services
Get the Software
Buying Comics And Stuff
Selling Your Comics
Opening A Store
Community
Forum
Store Locator
Member Locator
Welcome Guest Active Topics
Grading taking into account paper color Options
wpmcclure
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 3:05:39 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/28/2010
Posts: 428
Points: 4,236
Location: Washington
Hi all, been buying a bunch of Uncanny X-Men and New Mutants from Bronze age from a few sellers here and a lot of sellers state their comics NM. It seems like NM varies widely from seller to seller. I'm not here to bash any seller as the ones I've purchased from are great sellers. I'm really trying to understand the art of grading when it comes to the era the comic is from and paper color.

You see the Bronze Age that I'm currently knee deep in when referencing CGC is that a 9.6-9.8 has white pages but could have Off-White. 9.4 or better known as NM can have Off-White to White pages. What perplexes me is that most grading books, online sites, or sellers in general seem to disregard paper color when grading. If it was NM going in the bag then it still must be NM right? Well, what about color, what happened if it yellowed or worse yet, tanned. What then? It bugs me cause I've dumped about 200 and it's like playing the lotto so before I go any deeper in this money pit I wanted to ask a few questions.

Are there any sites that show grading imagery in conjunction with paper color? Examples? What constitutes an NM in the Bronze Age or Silver Age. What about VF/NM? (For example Graham Cracker Comics has everything listed as VF/NM) Everyone seems to post front and back of their comic for grading but hardly a view on the inside. What about this nefariously quiet but deadly criminal degrading your overall grade simply by changing the pages color as well as creating that fabulous old library smell??

Xylob
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 4:34:25 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 7,873
Points: 64,218
wpmcclure wrote:
...It seems like NM varies widely from seller to seller...

Understatement of the century?

I believe Overstreet had a visual on their site at one point regarding paper color, but I'm at work right now and their site is blocked here...

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!
Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...

Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
Thundercron
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 7:13:40 PM

Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 2,402
Points: 31,336
Location: Vancouver, Washington
The first Overstreet Grading Guide came with a handy-dandy OWL card that you could put in your wallet (Overstreet Whiteness Level). It showed examples of paper quality on a scale of one to ten.

Grading books in conjunction with paper color is tough. There were some eras where comics were printed on cheap newsprint, so sometimes the pages weren't very white to begin with.

It was always my understanding upon the release of the first Overstreet Grading Guide that grading a comic structurally via the numeric system (1 to 100 back then, now 1 to 10, Poor to Mint) was kind of separate from grading a comic's page color. So back then, a comic might be graded an 87 on the numeric scale, and be given an OWL rating of 8. This is why CGC started the practice of giving a comic a number grade, with the page quality cited separately on the label (White, Off-White, etc). I think this is why so many dealers don't really take page color into account when grading books and selling online.
Xylob
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 8:39:12 PM

Rank: Beyonder
Groups: Approver, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 8/12/2007
Posts: 7,873
Points: 64,218
Thundercron wrote:
...There were some eras where comics were printed on cheap newsprint, so sometimes the pages weren't very white to begin with...
and they aged very badly in some cases... I've got some books that are in great condition, but look terrible because the paper has yellowed so badly.
That cheap paper caused the ink to bleed too.

Need help with a Change Request?Click here to contact an approver!
Problems with CCL?
Send an email right away (don't delay!) to helpdesk@comiccollectorlive.com
615-264-4747
Offices are open M-F 8am-5pm Central Time.
You can also e-mail the Chief Brand Officer directly to try to resolve questions/stuff at steve@golocomedia.com for help with password resets, general customer service questions, store order resolution, credit card store updating, questions about comic books and CCL, etc...

Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?
wpmcclure
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:51:22 PM
Rank: Large Noggin
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/28/2010
Posts: 428
Points: 4,236
Location: Washington
I love how this thread is already dead, like nobody wants to talk about it. Seriously I want to talk about it. Any ways, I can't seem to find any references of pics that help when referring to the color grading scheme, White, Off-White, Tan, Brown...or whatever it is.

The other thing is I'm not sure how paper color is viewed as depending upon the era or paper type. I would love to get some type of reference for the types when referencing eras such as modern, Bronze, and Silver Age (Only ones I can afford). I have grading books but they solely focus on what it looks like on the outside.

I've also seen a lot of comics on newsprint that are white but have major bleed through and it kills me to see that. I'm not even sure how to grade something like that, anybody?

Also, if a set series was printed on crappy paper but everything else is awesome, theoretically it should still get a low grade because of the paper quality correct?


Spider-Man
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:52:37 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Approver, Beta, CR-Management, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 1/5/2007
Posts: 4,213
Points: 268,109
Location: USA
Here is a chart, with linked examples, of graded CGC books and the terms they used to describe the pages.

BIP Comics Page Color Chart






Signature design by CCL's own DrFate



SpiderFan.org





Spider-Man
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:56:23 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Approver, Beta, CR-Management, Member, Subscriber

Joined: 1/5/2007
Posts: 4,213
Points: 268,109
Location: USA
Here is an example of the OWL Card Thundercron referenced. You can still buy one if you want.

OWL Card from Gemstone Publishing






Signature design by CCL's own DrFate



SpiderFan.org





bovard
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:36:40 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member, Super Seller

Shop at My Store

Joined: 6/18/2007
Posts: 2,679
Points: 25,686
Location: Earth
Paper quality/color can be a tricky aspect to take into account, and as others have already mentioned, the original quality and color of the news print type paper many comics were originally printed on, was never white to begin with. So, if the paper was greyish or off-white to begin with, straight from production, then that's just how it was and should not affect the grade.

I started collecting/reading comics in 1982, and remember straight off the newstand wildly different types of paper in terms of quality and color. Some would be raggy news print type paper and greyish or off-white, while others were printed on better quality paper which was bright white in color. Different publishers, or even different titles from the same publisher, would often have different paper quality.

I think the take away point now is; has there been a change in paper quality of a given book due to it's aging over time? And, how negatively does that affect the quality of the comic overall.

Paper quality can be affected by a lot of different factors; original acidity, how they are stored, heat, humidity, chemicals, ciggarette smoke, carbon monoxide from being stored in a garage with vehicles, foxing, etc, can all negatively affect the book in varying ways.

According to Overtreet, NM (9.4) books can have pages with off-white to cream color. NM+ (9.6) can have off-white pages. Of course they have to still meet the criteria everywhere else to meet the grade.

If it were me, I would not worry about it on lower value books (less then $10?), as long as they appear strictly graded in all the other categories, and don't smell like ciggarettes, or have any other strong abnormal odors. On higher value books I would be concerned if expecting NM or better, and the paper quality/color was tan or yellowing or browning or has foxing. Off-white pages should still be ok for NM (9.4).



Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

This page was generated in 0.241 seconds.

ADVERTISEMENT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
All images on comic collector live copyright of their respective publishers. © Copyright 2008, MidTen Media Inc. GOLO241