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Poll Question: Direct/Newsstand Editions variants per CCL?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes, Directs and Newsstands are variants. Period, 8 10%
No, Directs and Newsstands are not variants. 52 70%
Maybe, but more discussion needs to happen. 14 18%

DIRECT EDITION vs NEWSSTAND EDITION POLL Options
CrossbowComics
Posted: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:36:36 AM

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Well, if this plays out like the 30 and 35 cent variants, my guess is no-one will give a rat's ash for 25 years then suddenly the $1.50 variants will get hot & triple in value. I'm personally doobieus though - not scarce enough, as the 70's variants were limited to a few states.



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wpmcclure
Posted: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:51:46 PM

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This is way too late, but it would be nice to at least identify what the comic is at the very least. Place an option box in the properties of the comic for either Newstand or Direct. I think that would be very nice and have it available for viewing in the catalog view and the reports.

AlacrityFitzhugh
Posted: Friday, September 17, 2010 9:23:58 PM

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wpmcclure wrote:
This is way too late, but it would be nice to at least identify what the comic is at the very least. Place an option box in the properties of the comic for either Newstand or Direct. I think that would be very nice and have it available for viewing in the catalog view and the reports.


You could use a custom field for that, if its important enough for you to track.


-- Alacrity

BluegrassComics
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:06:03 PM

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I guess I'm in the minority on CCL, but not in the industry. Already, there are many comics that sell for a higher price depending on whether it is newstand or direct market. This isn't a problem with just modern books. It goes all the way back to the 70's.

Also, CCL allows price variants (Canadian vs US, $.30 vs $.35, etc.)? How is that any different. On price variants, one will sell for more than the other because one variant is more rare. There is no difference in the book other than a couple digits difference on the price tag.

There is just as much visible difference (probably more actually) between direct and newstand variants.

Finally, you will have to allow at least some newstand/direct variants. Sometimes they have different covers, with the same price. So why not allow all of them if that is what people want to collect? People aren't going to come here and contribute to the database on items they don't care about. The people who contribute to newstand/direct variant dB entries will be the ones who collect and care about those variants. Why turn them away?

sgriffin
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:21:12 PM

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BluegrassComics wrote:
I guess I'm in the minority on CCL, but not in the industry. Already, there are many comics that sell for a higher price depending on whether it is newstand or direct market. This isn't a problem with just modern books. It goes all the way back to the 70's.

We've always allowed the variations that resulted in a different market price.

Quote:
The people who contribute to newstand/direct variant dB entries will be the ones who collect and care about those variants. Why turn them away?

From my perspective, it's because those people won't be the ones doing all the painful painful work to add all the newstand variants. That work will be on the approvers, the stores who now have to relist the bulk of their books, and the regular user who has to reindex their collection. There's just no way to satisfy the 5 or so people who want all the newstand variants without putting massive pain on the rest of the user base.

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BluegrassComics
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:50:04 PM

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ukblueky wrote:
HeroComics wrote:
ukblueky wrote:
IcyNova wrote:
Hmm. Makes you wonder if some of those folks who oppose the recognition of Newsstand's as variants are just worried that their Direct copies will drop in value...Boo Hoo!




You couldn't be farther from the truth.But I want to ask something.Why is it a variant if the cover is EXACTLY the same?No different picture,no different title color,no different background cover.The only difference is that in the little box that bears the upc barcode(which mind you IS NOT part of the cover art) it says Newsstand or Direct.Why is it a variant when the only difference is 1 word that isn't part of the cover art or logo?


At this rate people are gonna start tearing off the covers to their comics and call them "coverless" variants. "Oh thats not a crease in the cover that is a bend variant.And because of that it's worth x amount more."

When people are knit picking over a stupid barcode box it just makes me wanna throw my hands up and quit.Because all it boils down to is greed.Somebody out there is wanting to try and make people believe there is a distuingished difference between the 2 just to justify their greed.Are we trying to spearhead the next speculators market right here on CCL?


It is not about the barcode that is significant, it is the addition of the way the book was distributed. 'Newsstand Distribution' is different in many ways. It is industry wide and well established that newsstand and direct are not the same. The Whitman Variants on the DC books, only have a Whitman logo instead of DC, or some other small change, yet they are considered variants. Marvel thought enough about the difference to make a big deal about it back in SSM #83...



So in the end, a Distribution variant, or a different cover makes little difference. I have stated be fore, that I do not collect this difference myself, nor will I. I also believe that the Whitman Variants should be Whitman reprints... because they are just reprinted books, not like the toys r us variants and such.


To me a collector scrutinizing those 2 Amazing Spider-Man covers and then being so anal that they want to call them a variant.Just because the little box(which is the exact same size on both covers) showcases the issue number and price different(mind you the price is exactly the same) has done went and flipped his lid.When you cannot derive more enjoyment out of your comic collection than this it is time to hang up your cape.Now if the character portrayed in the small box was different then I may say you have something.Like if Marvel leaked out that only 1 out of 100 of those issues of Amazing Spider-man contain Mary Jane in the price box then I would say sure that is a variant.Because it has something substantially different on the cover.But I need something more than the price being wrote different to consider it a variant.

Like others have said on here.No proof has been shown that such a market even exists for Newstand vs Direct editions.Now apparently there are certain issues but a handful of issues doesn't make a market.This market is strangely similair to Bigfoot.There are always the supposed sightings of him but no one can give real evidence that such a thing exists.

Maybe the Newstand variant club is so exclusive that it is a secret within a secret.Like the Illuminati.


I don't think most people know the history of newstand vs direct. Many, many issues have excatly what you describe, art on a direct edition that isn't on a newstand edition (or sometimes vice versa).

You every see a 70's Marvel or DC with a black line diagonal through the bar code? Well that is a direct market. The newsstand had a bar code with no line through it.

Then publishers had the idea that if they were crossing out the bar code anyway, why not put a picture of Spidey or Superman in the box. And they started doing that, and there you get tons of examples of direct market copies that have art newsstand copies don't have, and thus are more desirable to some.

Then, people who bought from the newsstand started complaining that direct market readers were getting extra art that they weren't getting, so occasionally a publisher would put a head sketch in a box beside the price on a newsstand copy, and the direct copy would have the CCA logo there instead. Then you have examples of newsstand copies with art the direct copies don't have, thus more desirable.

Then comic shops started having bar code systems just like newsstand outlets and they needed the bar code too. Then they started putting direct in the bar code area, or newsstand (or both). On the surface, this looks like a minor thing that could be ignored.

However, even on these modern's I don't think it should be ignored. In several instances, the paper used in the direct version was of higher quality than the newsstand version. SO you have the same cover, same, price, but different paper. To some, one paper is more desirable than the other, thus in more demand.

I don't think the average collector realizes just how different newsstand vs direct can be. I think it certainly justifies noting the variation.

And then there are other times when the prices between the two versions are different, or the covers are different, and those are obvious differences. Sometimes newsstand copies are worth less. Sometimes they are worth more. From a pricing standpoint, if there is a difference, I want to be able to buy/sell at the correct price. Without differentiating, I can't do that.

http://www.comicspriceguide.com/boards/PrintTopic100664.aspx

Here was a similar discussion with some examples of the differences. Some from big publishers may not be different enough, but then look at the examples from CyberRAD, Armor, and Wildcats.

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=414413&sid=cca960148b681c0b1776a9615d211de6

Here are some dedicated collectors of scarce Valiant newsstand versions.





BluegrassComics
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:53:14 PM

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sgriffin wrote:
We've always allowed the variations that resulted in a different market price.


But how will you know a price difference exists unless you allow both to be listed so the market can determine the difference? Sure some are obviouse (DC Whitmans, Marvel Price Variants, etc), but others are not so obvious, like Armor #2.

CuriousGoodsNComics
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:26:29 PM

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BluegrassComics wrote:
ukblueky wrote:
HeroComics wrote:
ukblueky wrote:
IcyNova wrote:
Hmm. Makes you wonder if some of those folks who oppose the recognition of Newsstand's as variants are just worried that their Direct copies will drop in value...Boo Hoo!




You couldn't be farther from the truth.But I want to ask something.Why is it a variant if the cover is EXACTLY the same?No different picture,no different title color,no different background cover.The only difference is that in the little box that bears the upc barcode(which mind you IS NOT part of the cover art) it says Newsstand or Direct.Why is it a variant when the only difference is 1 word that isn't part of the cover art or logo?


At this rate people are gonna start tearing off the covers to their comics and call them "coverless" variants. "Oh thats not a crease in the cover that is a bend variant.And because of that it's worth x amount more."

When people are knit picking over a stupid barcode box it just makes me wanna throw my hands up and quit.Because all it boils down to is greed.Somebody out there is wanting to try and make people believe there is a distuingished difference between the 2 just to justify their greed.Are we trying to spearhead the next speculators market right here on CCL?


It is not about the barcode that is significant, it is the addition of the way the book was distributed. 'Newsstand Distribution' is different in many ways. It is industry wide and well established that newsstand and direct are not the same. The Whitman Variants on the DC books, only have a Whitman logo instead of DC, or some other small change, yet they are considered variants. Marvel thought enough about the difference to make a big deal about it back in SSM #83...



So in the end, a Distribution variant, or a different cover makes little difference. I have stated be fore, that I do not collect this difference myself, nor will I. I also believe that the Whitman Variants should be Whitman reprints... because they are just reprinted books, not like the toys r us variants and such.


To me a collector scrutinizing those 2 Amazing Spider-Man covers and then being so anal that they want to call them a variant.Just because the little box(which is the exact same size on both covers) showcases the issue number and price different(mind you the price is exactly the same) has done went and flipped his lid.When you cannot derive more enjoyment out of your comic collection than this it is time to hang up your cape.Now if the character portrayed in the small box was different then I may say you have something.Like if Marvel leaked out that only 1 out of 100 of those issues of Amazing Spider-man contain Mary Jane in the price box then I would say sure that is a variant.Because it has something substantially different on the cover.But I need something more than the price being wrote different to consider it a variant.

Like others have said on here.No proof has been shown that such a market even exists for Newstand vs Direct editions.Now apparently there are certain issues but a handful of issues doesn't make a market.This market is strangely similair to Bigfoot.There are always the supposed sightings of him but no one can give real evidence that such a thing exists.

Maybe the Newstand variant club is so exclusive that it is a secret within a secret.Like the Illuminati.


I don't think most people know the history of newstand vs direct. Many, many issues have excatly what you describe, art on a direct edition that isn't on a newstand edition (or sometimes vice versa).

You every see a 70's Marvel or DC with a black line diagonal through the bar code? Well that is a direct market. The newsstand had a bar code with no line through it.

Then publishers had the idea that if they were crossing out the bar code anyway, why not put a picture of Spidey or Superman in the box. And they started doing that, and there you get tons of examples of direct market copies that have art newsstand copies don't have, and thus are more desirable to some.

Then, people who bought from the newsstand started complaining that direct market readers were getting extra art that they weren't getting, so occasionally a publisher would put a head sketch in a box beside the price on a newsstand copy, and the direct copy would have the CCA logo there instead. Then you have examples of newsstand copies with art the direct copies don't have, thus more desirable.

Then comic shops started having bar code systems just like newsstand outlets and they needed the bar code too. Then they started putting direct in the bar code area, or newsstand (or both). On the surface, this looks like a minor thing that could be ignored.

However, even on these modern's I don't think it should be ignored. In several instances, the paper used in the direct version was of higher quality than the newsstand version. SO you have the same cover, same, price, but different paper. To some, one paper is more desirable than the other, thus in more demand.

I don't think the average collector realizes just how different newsstand vs direct can be. I think it certainly justifies noting the variation.

And then there are other times when the prices between the two versions are different, or the covers are different, and those are obvious differences. Sometimes newsstand copies are worth less. Sometimes they are worth more. From a pricing standpoint, if there is a difference, I want to be able to buy/sell at the correct price. Without differentiating, I can't do that.

http://www.comicspriceguide.com/boards/PrintTopic100664.aspx

Here was a similar discussion with some examples of the differences. Some from big publishers may not be different enough, but then look at the examples from CyberRAD, Armor, and Wildcats.

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=414413&sid=cca960148b681c0b1776a9615d211de6

Here are some dedicated collectors of scarce Valiant newsstand versions.





Applause
glguygardner
Posted: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:23:06 AM

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I'm a comic reader/collector but I look at a variant as something planned to be different than the original comic...ie different covers being the main one. If I walk into a grocery store and low and behold they still have comics in the rack and the cover is the same as the one I got from my LCS, but the only difference is the UPC code and it saying direct or newstand edition, that's not a variant to me. I dont care if only 5k were printing for newsstand edition and 15k printed for direct edition mainly because I don't plan on selling my comics so the rarety of either don't appeal to me.

mathewlett517
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:53:22 PM
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I have a different take on this. The rarity on a newsstand edition vs direct edition is in chance and condition. Especially for us older collectors who know how a news stand rack required others to bend comics to look and pick and pull. Direct editions have more chance at being a higher grade. So, a high grade in a newsstand edition would be more difficult to find. I think there is a market for those who see it, however small it may be. I for one collect all the differences I can afford money to purchase and time to find.
pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:02:51 PM

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mathewlett517 wrote:
I have a different take on this. The rarity on a newsstand edition vs direct edition is in chance and condition. Especially for us older collectors who know how a news stand rack required others to bend comics to look and pick and pull. Direct editions have more chance at being a higher grade. So, a high grade in a newsstand edition would be more difficult to find. I think there is a market for those who see it, however small it may be. I for one collect all the differences I can afford money to purchase and time to find.
While I could care less if a comic is direct or newsstand, I do see the inherent value and scarcity of the newsstand versions for the reason stated above.

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Xylob
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:06:15 PM

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mathewlett517 wrote:
...a news stand rack required others to bend comics to look and pick and pull. Direct editions have more chance at being a higher grade. So, a high grade in a newsstand edition would be more difficult to find...
No arguments from me - your point is clear and well made.
mathewlett517 wrote:
I think there is a market for those who see it, however small it may be...
Again, no arguments from me. However, as long as those who seek these items remain a minority (no matter how vocal), they will probably also remain frustrated in many ways.

At risk of repeating myself, I also believe that newsstand editions are valid variants. That doesn't change the fact that based on the way this particular database is built and the way items are currently listed for sale, adding them in now isn't going to happen. If it was going to happen, it needed to be done from the start.

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yourplace2
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outcast
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:38:42 AM
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mathewlett517 wrote:
I have a different take on this. The rarity on a newsstand edition vs direct edition is in chance and condition. Especially for us older collectors who know how a news stand rack required others to bend comics to look and pick and pull. Direct editions have more chance at being a higher grade. So, a high grade in a newsstand edition would be more difficult to find. I think there is a market for those who see it, however small it may be. I for one collect all the differences I can afford money to purchase and time to find.
Welcome to the cause!

As I once pointed out in these very forums, collecting variations of the same issue can reasonably be seen in the same light as coin collectors collecting, for example, nickels with both 1948 and 1948-D markings. It continues to surprise me that only a few Internet sales sites are willing to market to collectors who want to be able to specify the version they are buying, and it continues to disappoint me that the sites that do recognize the distinction tend to have so many other problems.

I agree with your reasoning about relative scarcity in high grade of newsstand versions compared to direct versions. I believe that this scarcity could reasonably (and in time, will) result in broad recognition of higher market value for high grade newsstands.
Xylob
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:01:31 AM

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I think the bottom line here is that, comparitavely speaking, nobody cares.
The overwhelming majority of collectors consider newsstand editions to be inferior and not worth wasting their time on.

Until (if!) there is ever a major change in the way newsstand editions are viewed, those in the very small minority will continue to remain the minority.
Sure, collecting comics is about rarity, but it's also about quality and as already recently mentioned here, most newsstand comics are in pretty bad shape - which probably has a lot to do with why so few people give a rats behind about them &/or consider them inferior.

Those who are in that minority can continue to rattle their empty cans, but I truly believe their complaints will fall on deaf ears for a very long time.

Those of you die-hard newsie collectors can (and absolutely will) take everything I've just said completely out of context, but it won't change the facts of reality.

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Tamwood
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 9:54:22 AM

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Xylob wrote:
I think the bottom line here is that, comparitavely speaking, nobody cares.
The overwhelming majority of collectors consider newsstand editions to be inferior and not worth wasting their time on.

Until (if!) there is ever a major change in the way newsstand editions are viewed, those in the very small minority will continue to remain the minority.
Sure, collecting comics is about rarity, but it's also about quality and as already recently mentioned here, most newsstand comics are in pretty bad shape - which probably has a lot to do with why so few people give a rats behind about them &/or consider them inferior.

Those who are in that minority can continue to rattle their empty cans, but I truly believe their complaints will fall on deaf ears for a very long time.

Those of you die-hard newsie collectors can (and absolutely will) take everything I've just said completely out of context, but it won't change the facts of reality.


+1 million
Xylob
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:10:12 AM

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on the "plus" side, there are apparently enough newsie dedicated out there for Chuck Rozanzki to manipulate and take advantage of... congrats!

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Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
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Atilla2k
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2013 10:10:42 AM

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Tamwood wrote:
Xylob wrote:
I think the bottom line here is that, comparitavely speaking, nobody cares.
The overwhelming majority of collectors consider newsstand editions to be inferior and not worth wasting their time on.

Until (if!) there is ever a major change in the way newsstand editions are viewed, those in the very small minority will continue to remain the minority.
Sure, collecting comics is about rarity, but it's also about quality and as already recently mentioned here, most newsstand comics are in pretty bad shape - which probably has a lot to do with why so few people give a rats behind about them &/or consider them inferior.

Those who are in that minority can continue to rattle their empty cans, but I truly believe their complaints will fall on deaf ears for a very long time.

Those of you die-hard newsie collectors can (and absolutely will) take everything I've just said completely out of context, but it won't change the facts of reality.


+1 million


+ Infinity x's Infinity + 1....

SwiftMann
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Poll results and the, now, 4 vocal members and lack of anyone but a crazed rip-off artist selling them seperately pretty much tell the market story on this. It's such a small minority of buyers that the economics aren't there to justify software/website changes or stores sorting through their inventory to check for direct vs newsstand.

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The poll was started three years ago, which is when the last activity on this thread was until just the other day.

I think a new poll would garner different results. The majority still won't care, but I think more people have swayed to the side of newsstands in that three years.

But still not enough to make a difference.

As I've said before, I've tried to sell newsstands for a premium, but the market just isn't there. There are still too many dealers that don't distinguish or upcharge for them that it's relatively easy to find newsstand editions at the same price as a direct. Of course, there will always be that ONE issue that a collector has a hard time finding.
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