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Poll Question: Who wins in the Peruvian Mountains (Poll is closed)
Choice Votes Statistics
Firestorm Fire Elemental (Martin Stein) 7 46%
Beta Ray Bill 8 53%

SHS 1, Fight 30 - Firestorm Fire Elemental (Martin Stein) vs Beta Ray Bill in Machu Picchu Options
The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 2:20:33 PM

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Yeah, I knew that was coming, dragon.



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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 2:21:44 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:
Lets look at Bill's powers.

■Superhuman Strength: Bill is phenomenally strong. He was capable of matching Thor pound per pound in their first encounter as foes to a certain extent. Therefore, Bill can lift in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. Bill has enough strength to crush entire moons with his fists, and shatter entire planets with the force of his blows.

■Superhuman Speed: He is capable of running and moving at speeds greater than even the finest human athlete. With Stormbreaker, he can fly at speeds faster than light.

■Superhuman Stamina: Bill has superhuman stamina which can allow him to function at full capacity for many days at a time without tiring at the very least. In hot climates, his stamina is limitless.

■Superhuman Reflexes: His reaction time is superior to the finest human athlete and most superhumans.

■Superhumanly Dense Tissue: As a Korbinite his skin, muscle, and bone tissues had 3 times the density than the same tissue of a human being. This contributed, to his superhuman weight. He is immune to penetration wounds, tremendous impacts, and falls from great heights.

■Superhuman Durability: Bill's body is far more resistant to physical injury than the body of an ordinary human. He is capable of withstanding great impact forces, temperature and pressure extremes, surviving in the heart of a Sun without even a slight discomfort, and even survive at point blank range, powerful energy blasts capable of destroying entire planets without any visible physical injury.

■Regenerative Healing Factor: If injured, his body can heal itself with superhuman levels of speed and efficiency. However, he cannot regenerate missing limbs or organs.

■Extended Longevity: In his cyborg body, he is immune to the effects of aging making him effectively immortal. When he was in the body of Simon Walters, he was the same as a mortal.

Strength level:

Class 100+ ; Able to lift well over 100 tons. Bill possesses enough strength to shatter entire planets and so on.

Equipment:
Armor of Asgardian design, including a helmet.

Weapons:
■Stormbreaker, a hammer similar to Mjolnir. Bill can use it to fly, manipulate weather, absorb and channel various energies, teleport, and sense various energies.


Okay. Now we see what Beta Ray can do. What you are forgetting is that Firestorm has never faced Beta Ray before nor has he faced Asgardian magic so you are assuming Firestorm's powers will affect him as they would a human or another DC metahuman.
Bill's armor is also made of Asgardian magic and technology. He has super healing which keeps him in the fight for days.

His hammer allows him to fly at the speed of light so how is Firestorm going to avoid being hit that fast?

Oh, Beta Ray Bill can destroy moons by just using his FISTS! Firestorm is no moon, he's a dead man.

Beta Ray Bill controls the weather. If Firestorm is an elemental and Bill can manipulate the elements then that is a major weakness for Stormy.

Stormbreaker can create a strong force field around Bill to defend Firestorm's attacks and at the same time, call down the lightning which hits the entire area including Firestorm.

Remember, Beta Ray Bill has fought battles with nearly impossible odds but has come out on top. He's beaten heralds of Galactus and has gone up against Galactus himself. He is capable of destroying moons and planets with one blow of Stormbreaker. Laying waste to this area WITH Firestorm along with it is a great possibility.




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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 2:22:50 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:


CLICK ON THIS LINK FOR MORE PICS OF WHAT BETA RAY HAS DONE!

Beta Ray Bill in action!

The proof of his power in full color!





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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:14:29 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:
The_Ghost wrote:
Lets look at Bill's powers.

■Superhuman Strength: Bill is phenomenally strong. He was capable of matching Thor pound per pound in their first encounter as foes to a certain extent. Therefore, Bill can lift in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. Bill has enough strength to crush entire moons with his fists, and shatter entire planets with the force of his blows.

■Superhuman Speed: He is capable of running and moving at speeds greater than even the finest human athlete. With Stormbreaker, he can fly at speeds faster than light.

■Superhuman Stamina: Bill has superhuman stamina which can allow him to function at full capacity for many days at a time without tiring at the very least. In hot climates, his stamina is limitless.

■Superhuman Reflexes: His reaction time is superior to the finest human athlete and most superhumans.

■Superhumanly Dense Tissue: As a Korbinite his skin, muscle, and bone tissues had 3 times the density than the same tissue of a human being. This contributed, to his superhuman weight. He is immune to penetration wounds, tremendous impacts, and falls from great heights.

■Superhuman Durability: Bill's body is far more resistant to physical injury than the body of an ordinary human. He is capable of withstanding great impact forces, temperature and pressure extremes, surviving in the heart of a Sun without even a slight discomfort, and even survive at point blank range, powerful energy blasts capable of destroying entire planets without any visible physical injury.

■Regenerative Healing Factor: If injured, his body can heal itself with superhuman levels of speed and efficiency. However, he cannot regenerate missing limbs or organs.

■Extended Longevity: In his cyborg body, he is immune to the effects of aging making him effectively immortal. When he was in the body of Simon Walters, he was the same as a mortal.

Strength level:

Class 100+ ; Able to lift well over 100 tons. Bill possesses enough strength to shatter entire planets and so on.

Equipment:
Armor of Asgardian design, including a helmet.

Weapons:
■Stormbreaker, a hammer similar to Mjolnir. Bill can use it to fly, manipulate weather, absorb and channel various energies, teleport, and sense various energies.


Okay. Now we see what Beta Ray can do. What you are forgetting is that Firestorm has never faced Beta Ray before nor has he faced Asgardian magic so you are assuming Firestorm's powers will affect him as they would a human or another DC metahuman.
Bill's armor is also made of Asgardian magic and technology. He has super healing which keeps him in the fight for days.

His hammer allows him to fly at the speed of light so how is Firestorm going to avoid being hit that fast?

Oh, Beta Ray Bill can destroy moons by just using his FISTS! Firestorm is no moon, he's a dead man.

Beta Ray Bill controls the weather. If Firestorm is an elemental and Bill can manipulate the elements then that is a major weakness for Stormy.

Stormbreaker can create a strong force field around Bill to defend Firestorm's attacks and at the same time, call down the lightning which hits the entire area including Firestorm.

Remember, Beta Ray Bill has fought battles with nearly impossible odds but has come out on top. He's beaten heralds of Galactus and has gone up against Galactus himself. He is capable of destroying moons and planets with one blow of Stormbreaker. Laying waste to this area WITH Firestorm along with it is a great possibility.


I enlarged Stormbreaker's more important abilities and that is weather manipulation, absorbtion of energy and being able to channel it at an enemy, sense energies, the ability to allow Beta Ray to teleport. He can teleport to different areas of the environment AND create small black holes. Firestorm cannot protect himself from a black hole.



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Eville_1
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:18:21 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:
The_Ghost wrote:


CLICK ON THIS LINK FOR MORE PICS OF WHAT BETA RAY HAS DONE!

Beta Ray Bill in action!

The proof of his power in full color!


Those are some impressive feats, Beta Ray +1.
The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:20:39 PM

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Thanks, Eville_1. Beta Ray Bill is no wimp and has more than enough power and experience to beat Firestorm. He's powerful and determined which is why he wont give up here.



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comicuniversity
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:23:10 PM
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LOL. There is so much longwinded power listing going on i can't really decipher the rationales.

The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:33:26 PM

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Well, as soon as Beta Ray appears, he see's Firestorm across the other side and quickly puts up a protective shield to defend himself from any attack. Remember that Stormbreaker is made by Odin using mysterious Asgardinan magic that no human or DC metahuman understands.
Bill swings Stormbreaker creating extremely violent winds that Firestorm gets caught up in. He calls down several bolts of lightning striking the entire area. As Firestorm struggles to focus, Bill slams Stormbreaker into the ground causing a giant and deep hole in the heart of Machu Pichu. As Firestorm throws his energy at Beta Ray, his shield holds strong and Bill is unharmed. When the constant wind and barrage of lightning pound Firestorm, he is forced to the ground. Beta Ray uses his hammer to increase the wind power pushing Firestorm into the deep hole. Quickly, Beta Ray Bill rips off a huge junk of that mountain in the picture and throws it in the deep pit before Firestorm has a chance to escape. Firestorm is trapped under tons of rubble and heavy rock and long enough to be subdued.



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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:18:54 PM

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Just to remind voters of something very interesting about Beta Ray Bill.

"■Superhuman Durability: Bill's body is far more resistant to physical injury than the body of an ordinary human. He is capable of withstanding great impact forces, temperature and pressure extremes, surviving in the heart of a Sun without even a slight discomfort, and even survive at point blank range, powerful energy blasts capable of destroying entire planets without any visible physical injury."

Firestorm doesn't have the power to destroy a planet so whatever he throws at Bill means nothing when he can survive energy blasts that destroys worlds without a scratch.



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ukblueky
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:27:34 PM

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comicuniversity wrote:
LOL. There is so much longwinded power listing going on i can't really decipher the rationales.



Thats kinda what I was thinking.Laughing Who in the Marvel U hasnt defeated Galactus? It seems like every character on here has defeated Galactus.Why Marvel even puts him in a comic book as a threat anymore is beyond me.
This isnt against any manager its just a sore point of mine.When comic book writers write in a story that a character destroys a planet with their bare hands.It makes me want to pull my hair out.Hulk can destroy a planet with his bare hands yet when he punches someone their body doesnt explode, heck it doesnt even knock them out.Stupid stupid writing.



The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:31:40 PM

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Doom posted that Firestorm could turn himself into the size of a Celestial and crush Beta Ray. That would work great IF Doom himself were writing that story.
Fact is that I've provided proof of Beta Ray Bill beating Galactus as well as other giants, heralds, Skrulls, and beings much more powerful than Firestorm. I've provided proof of Bill's powers and how they can counteract Firestorm's attacks. I also provided a rationale on how Beta Ray would win.



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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:05:30 PM

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Ghost keeps arguing as if he's fighting Firestorm here. Keep in mind folks, he's NOT fighting Firestorm. He's fighting Firestorm PLUS the power of a God.

I thought just the immense difference in power would be enough here to sway voters. But I guess not. So here it goes:

1. Firestorm doesn't know who Beta Ray Bill is, Ghost is correct. Except Elemental Firestorm has awareness. Meaning that because he's a God, he just senses everything around him. As soon as he knows he's in battle, he knows EXACTLY what Beta Ray Bill's powers and weapons are.

So because of that awareness, he's going to immediately rid Beta Ray Bill of Stormbreaker. This is a very simple task for him. He uses his gravity manipulation powers to simply yank the hammer from his hand with nothing more than a wave of his hand. It goes flying out to the outer atmosphere of the Earth. Beta Ray Bill cannot go after it without leaving the battlefield and forfeiting. Or he could use the Firestorm Matrix and turn his hammer into an ice-cream cone. Take your pick.

Without Stormbreaker Beta Ray Bill is severely limited in his ability to attack. He cannot fly without it, he cannot conjure super-speed, he cannot conjure lighting or storms.

Beta Ray Bill is still super-humanly strong. But Elemental Firestorm will simply teleport out of reach anytime Beta Ray Bill happens to get close enough to attack.

In the meantime, Elemental Firestorm pins Beta Ray Bill to the ground as he increases his gravity. He also uses the Firestorm Matrix to turn the ground beneath him into quicksand as he forces Beta Ray Bill down by increasing the gravity; so any fighting or moving Beta Ray Bill does just makes his situation even worse. Battle over and Elemental Firestorm barely even taps the power at his command.

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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:08:09 PM

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Oh, and Firestorm doesn't have the power to destroy a planet, you're right. BUT Elemental Firestorm does have that kind of power.

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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:22:15 PM

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Again, here's Elemental Firestorm taking out both Captain and Firestorm (which as you can clearly see here is not the same being as Elemental Firestorm, which Ghost keeps talking as if they are) without so much as blinking. It's no harder for him to subdue 2 of the most powerful characters in the DC Universe, than it is for him to walk across a room.



What is Beta Ray Bill alone gonna do against that kind of power? It's like Robin going up against The Hulk.

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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:26:43 PM

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BurningDoom wrote:
Ghost keeps arguing as if he's fighting Firestorm here. Keep in mind folks, he's NOT fighting Firestorm. He's fighting Firestorm PLUS the power of a God.

I thought just the immense difference in power would be enough here to sway voters. But I guess not. So here it goes:

1. Firestorm doesn't know who Beta Ray Bill is, Ghost is correct. Except Elemental Firestorm has awareness. Meaning that because he's a God, he just senses everything around him. As soon as he knows he's in battle, he knows EXACTLY what Beta Ray Bill's powers and weapons are.

So because of that awareness, he's going to immediately rid Beta Ray Bill of Stormbreaker. This is a very simple task for him. He uses his gravity manipulation powers to simply yank the hammer from his hand with nothing more than a wave of his hand. It goes flying out to the outer atmosphere of the Earth. Beta Ray Bill cannot go after it without leaving the battlefield and forfeiting. Or he could use the Firestorm Matrix and turn his hammer into an ice-cream cone. Take your pick.

Without Stormbreaker Beta Ray Bill is severely limited in his ability to attack. He cannot fly without it, he cannot conjure super-speed, he cannot conjure lighting or storms.

Beta Ray Bill is still super-humanly strong. But Elemental Firestorm will simply teleport out of reach anytime Beta Ray Bill happens to get close enough to attack.

In the meantime, Elemental Firestorm pins Beta Ray Bill to the ground as he increases his gravity. He also uses the Firestorm Matrix to turn the ground beneath him into quicksand as he forces Beta Ray Bill down by increasing the gravity; so any fighting or moving Beta Ray Bill does just makes his situation even worse. Battle over and Elemental Firestorm barely even taps the power at his command.


1. Thats a HUGE stretch. These are two different universes and characters meeting for the first time. You claim Firestorm is a god so he automatically knows what Beta Ray is capable of. Well, Beta Ray Bill is a god as well and he can sense energies so he would know that Firestorm is full of energy and would instantly put up a force field protected by Asgardian magic.

You honestly expect people to believe that taking Stormbreaker away from Bill is really that easy? First off, he isn't worthy to even lift the hammer in anyway. Bill would not release Stormbreaker and has the strength to keep that from happening. You're acting like its so easy to do that, Doom. LOL! Its just not gonna happen.

You are forgeting that Beta Ray Bill can control the weather and elements. If Firestorm is an element then thats a big weakness.
Stormbreaker allows Beta Ray to teleport to anywhere in the environment. You dont know where he's going to teleport to until its too late. You speak of Firestorm hurling Stormbreaker into space (which wont happen) but Beta Ray can create black holes which Firestorm could not escape from.

Beta Ray Bill is extremely powerful and any attempt at using gravity as a weapon is a joke especially since he'd be protected by an Asgardian force field throughout the battle. Using Stormbreaker to manipulate the weather, Firestorm will be swept up in a giant vortex filled with a barrage of lightning until Beta Ray Bill finally rips a mountain apart and throwing it on Firestorm crushing him into the ground.

You are trying to get people to believe that Firestorm's powers will work on unknown Asgardian magic and technology. Fact is that Firestorm (god-like or not) will not have a clue because these are two different universes here. You dont know if Firestorm's "ability" to instantly know of another's powers, strength, and abilities will work.



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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:31:23 PM

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BurningDoom wrote:
Again, here's Elemental Firestorm taking out both Captain and Firestorm (which as you can clearly see here is not the same being as Elemental Firestorm, which Ghost keeps talking as if they are) without so much as blinking. It's no harder for him to subdue 2 of the most powerful characters in the DC Universe, than it is for him to walk across a room.



What is Beta Ray Bill alone gonna do against that kind of power? It's like Robin going up against The Hulk.


SERIOUSLY???? I guess you haven't taken the time to view the pics of what Beta Ray Bill can do, huh? You are showing us 2 pics of him fighting Captain Atom while I've shown in detail what Bill has done against far more powerful enemies.

Now, why didn't the elemental Firestorm turn into something the size of a Celestial and end that battle with Captain Atom a lot faster? Why didn't he just turn Captain Atom into some flowers?



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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:35:59 PM

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I guess this needs repeating. Take the time to view the pure awesome power of Beta Ray Bill!

The_Ghost wrote:
The_Ghost wrote:


CLICK ON THIS LINK FOR MORE PICS OF WHAT BETA RAY HAS DONE!

Beta Ray Bill in action!

The proof of his power in full color!





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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:36:32 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:
BurningDoom wrote:
Again, here's Elemental Firestorm taking out both Captain and Firestorm (which as you can clearly see here is not the same being as Elemental Firestorm, which Ghost keeps talking as if they are) without so much as blinking. It's no harder for him to subdue 2 of the most powerful characters in the DC Universe, than it is for him to walk across a room.



What is Beta Ray Bill alone gonna do against that kind of power? It's like Robin going up against The Hulk.


SERIOUSLY???? I guess you haven't taken the time to view the pics of what Beta Ray Bill can do, huh? You are showing us 2 pics of him fighting Captain Atom while I've shown in detail what Bill has done against far more powerful enemies.

Now, why didn't the elemental Firestorm turn into something the size of a Celestial and end that battle with Captain Atom a lot faster? Why didn't he just turn Captain Atom into some flowers?


Because he simply waived his arm and suspended him in a stasis field. Seems just as effective to me.

If you read the dialogue, he also restructured Firestorm's molecular structure by simply looking at him.

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The_Ghost
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:44:34 PM

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Beta Ray Bill is not Captain Atom. Captain Atom is not gifted with Asgardian magic by the god Odin himself. Neither Captain Atom nor Raymond can withstand enough energy blasts that would destroy a planet. Captain Atom and Raymond do not have the ability to destroy entire regions and planets with their bare hands nor do they have Stormbreaker which can absorb and channel energy. This Firestorm has energy that can be pulled directly out of him and into Stormbreaker which would leave Firestorm nothing more than a powerless man.



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BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:48:00 PM

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The_Ghost wrote:
Beta Ray Bill is not Captain Atom. Captain Atom is not gifted with Asgardian magic by the god Odin himself. Neither Captain Atom nor Raymond can withstand enough energy blasts that would destroy a planet. Captain Atom and Raymond do not have the ability to destroy entire regions and planets with their bare hands nor do they have Stormbreaker which can absorb and channel energy. This Firestorm has energy that can be pulled directly out of him and into Stormbreaker which would leave Firestorm nothing more than a powerless man.


You mean with the hammer that's floating around in the outer atmosphere? The one Elemental Firestorm used his gravity manipulation powers on?

Even if that weren't the case, he's an Elemental. He draws his energy from the primal forces that make up the universe. So unless Stormbreaker can sap the universe dry of all heat and fire, I don't see that one happening.

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