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War with Syria Options
comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:28:14 PM
Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 1,335
Points: 4,780
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
But...it's fair to criticize Clinton for it? What?


Yes, it is fair because he knew more about the threat and spent much more time dealing with it.


Man, you draw a really fine distinction. Then by this rationale, Bush should damn well have know Saddam didnt have WMD or links to Al Quaeda since the Gov. had been looking at Iraq with a fine tooth comb since 19 friggin 91!!!!

But...you give HIM a pass for some reason.
Methinks someone isn't practicing what he preaches.

Seems you give republicans a blanket pass, but hold democrats very keenly to the fire.


This makes no sense to me at all. He should know Sadaam didn't have WMDs since 1991? How about from 1988 when he used those WMDs to kill thousands of his own people. I don't understand the debate here. This is a known fact.


When Bush W. invaded Iraq NO WMD or links to Al Quaeda were found....even though Bush's entire rationale for invading was WMD and Al Quaeda.

But...you give him a pass....even tough he had over a decade of information to take from...because you think he did the right thing

You also give him a pass on Osama because he didn't have enough time to study it or whatever.

You don't give Clinton a pass on the same issue because he had more time.


Which is it? time? not enough time?


Dude, just admit it. It doesn't matter what republicans or democrats do or say. it doesn't matter what facts are brought to bear. You are in that "conservatives are %100 percent right no matter what and democrats are %100 percent wrong no matter what camp".

I mean, even when faced with the fact that the liberals were WITH Bush for his decision to invade Iraq, you wouldn't even give them credit for that. You said they did it out of fear. lol.


Y'know this whole time I've been making my arguments I've never once made a personal remark about you at all but that's all you seem to be keen on doing with me in this thread. Stop judging me based on my opinion. You have no idea the kind of person I am.


I am extrapolating based on the evidence you are providing.

Prove i'm wrong if you care to.
KingZombie
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:31:06 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/14/2007
Posts: 4,543
Points: 90,058
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
Not catching you in a debating gaffe.

Catching you being wrong.


LOL! Catching me being wrong in my opinion? OK, thanks. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


When you state that the media and liberals are always against republican begun military actions, that isn't an opinion. That's stating afact...or trying to, since it isn't true.

If you stated, I think Bush was right to go into Iraq and Obama is wrong to go into Syria.....that's an opinion. But you didnt say that.


:::Sigh::: my original statement, what I started this thread was that people who protested going into Iraq are nowhere to be found now. I don't know how to make this any clearer. You keep skewing it to try and make me admit that I intended something else and that I'm wrong. I rephrase what I meant but you keep holding to what you think I meant.

Seriously, get over it already.
comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:34:46 PM
Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 1,335
Points: 4,780
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
Not catching you in a debating gaffe.

Catching you being wrong.


LOL! Catching me being wrong in my opinion? OK, thanks. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


When you state that the media and liberals are always against republican begun military actions, that isn't an opinion. That's stating afact...or trying to, since it isn't true.

If you stated, I think Bush was right to go into Iraq and Obama is wrong to go into Syria.....that's an opinion. But you didnt say that.


:::Sigh::: my original statement, what I started this thread was that people who protested going into Iraq are nowhere to be found now. I don't know how to make this any clearer. You keep skewing it to try and make me admit that I intended something else and that I'm wrong. I rephrase what I meant but you keep holding to what you think I meant.

Seriously, get over it already.


Again, you are changing what you said. You said left leaning people and the mainstream media. That isn't true.

if you had said what you just said here originally, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you....as there are just as many wingnut idiots on the left as there are on the right. In fact, I have asserted in this very thread, that it constitutes a massive problem in this country that some of those very same wingnuts seem to dominate the airwaves and convince people they are right!


For the record, if you are now stating that it's the people who protest against a political parties decisions blindly ( any political party) who are the problem...then I AM WITH YOU.
KingZombie
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:36:01 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/14/2007
Posts: 4,543
Points: 90,058
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
Y'know this whole time I've been making my arguments I've never once made a personal remark about you at all but that's all you seem to be keen on doing with me in this thread. Stop judging me based on my opinion. You have no idea the kind of person I am.


I am extrapolating based on the evidence you are providing.

Prove i'm wrong if you care to.


LMAO, honestly, I don't care what you're opinion of me is. I just think you shouldn't do it in general for people you don't know. But whatever, dude. This thread isn't intended for you to "extrapolate" the kind of person I am.
comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:38:40 PM
Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 1,335
Points: 4,780
As an aside, i am going to post this here.

I am verrrryyy passionate about the hate filled political divide our country now finds itself in. Our government (and by extension too many American citizens) seem to have lost the ability to compromise, and have, instead found the ability to blindly fight the other side vainly.

You struck a very raw nerve with me.


For the record, I do not know you and have never had cause to think ill of you (and still don't).


I have made some very strong statements in defense of an issue I am very passionate about.


I am not debating what side is better. i am not debating Iraq. i am not debating Syria. i am not debating Obama or Bush.

I am debating the blind agreement and blind hate of political parties that is currently leading our country into ruin by causing our government to be dealocked and impotent.


Lastly, you could be a great guy or a horrible guy. the fact that you dig comics and don't mind spending time debating important issues has me leaning towards the positive side on you, but that doesn't matter.

I want to be clear though. I am not hating you. I am hating that damned political blind hatred that has our country deadlocked and impotent! And, right or wrong, I saw that trait in your original attack on the "mainstream media" and ALL lefties.


and.....regrettably....I let my passion get the better of me and i expressed my opinions in ways that are too charged and negative as to make a real impact. I kinda became part of the problem.
KingZombie
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:39:29 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/14/2007
Posts: 4,543
Points: 90,058
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
Not catching you in a debating gaffe.

Catching you being wrong.


LOL! Catching me being wrong in my opinion? OK, thanks. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


When you state that the media and liberals are always against republican begun military actions, that isn't an opinion. That's stating afact...or trying to, since it isn't true.

If you stated, I think Bush was right to go into Iraq and Obama is wrong to go into Syria.....that's an opinion. But you didnt say that.


:::Sigh::: my original statement, what I started this thread was that people who protested going into Iraq are nowhere to be found now. I don't know how to make this any clearer. You keep skewing it to try and make me admit that I intended something else and that I'm wrong. I rephrase what I meant but you keep holding to what you think I meant.

Seriously, get over it already.


Again, you are changing what you said. You said left leaning people and the mainstream media. That isn't true.

if you had said what you just said here originally, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you....as there are just as many wingnut idiots on the left as there are on the right. In fact, I have asserted in this very thread, that it constitutes a massive problem in this country that some of those very same wingnuts seem to dominate the airwaves and convince people they are right!


For the record, if you are now stating that it's the people who protest against a political parties decisions blindly ( any political party) who are the problem...then I AM WITH YOU.


Do you not understand that I am changing what I said, ADMITTINGLY changing what I said to make what I meant clearer? Because it doesn't seem like you're grasping that.
SuperSoldier124
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:56:29 PM

Rank: Celestial
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Joined: 4/3/2007
Posts: 3,010
Points: 9,091
Location: Falcon, Colorado
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.

add me on xbox live and PSN

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SuperSoldier124
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:08:13 PM

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Location: Falcon, Colorado
All-in-all i hope it doesn't turn to war because 1. i'm on orders for Jordan in Oct. 2. I don't want to sit in the desert. Again. In chemical mission oriented protective posture. in 100 plus degrees. Let haji police their own sh!t up. No one intervened in Americans civil war (France showed up to late the party!)

add me on xbox live and PSN

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comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:08:53 PM
Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 1,335
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SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
SuperSoldier124
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:10:45 PM

Rank: Celestial
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/3/2007
Posts: 3,010
Points: 9,091
Location: Falcon, Colorado
it's already been documented. I made my sworn statements. The military is tracking. beyond that I don't care.

add me on xbox live and PSN

PS3: wartorn11b
360: precious blood1

DocRx8482
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:11:04 PM

Rank: Metahuman
Groups: Member, Subscriber

Joined: 5/3/2007
Posts: 197
Points: 106,031
Location: Port Orchard, washington
Whoaaaaaaa!!!! That was uncalled for..........

"Head to the future,
Run from the past,
Hide from the mirror,
And live in a glass,
What dreams forget the whiskey remembers
" (Eric Church/Marv Green)
pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:56:19 PM

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Posts: 4,516
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Location: Bainbridge Island, Washington
comicuniversity wrote:
SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
Howdy! supersoldier is correct. I have a hard drive somewhere with about 10 examples of things that were found. Let me try and find it this week.

Some of the chemicals were rumored to have been shipped out to Suria in fact. There were several chemical and other weapons banned to Iraq that showed up in European scrapyards. All of which were being hussled out of Iraq while he was blocking inspections.

Even simpler, he was in possession of several missiles that exceeded the UN allowable range. They weren't the flashy chemical "WMDs", but their possession clearly violated the UN's resolutions...

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pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:10:47 PM

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pottersan wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
Howdy! supersoldier is correct. I have a hard drive somewhere with about 10 examples of things that were found. Let me try and find it this week.

Some of the chemicals were rumored to have been shipped out to Suria in fact. There were several chemical and other weapons banned to Iraq that showed up in European scrapyards. All of which were being hussled out of Iraq while he was blocking inspections.

Even simpler, he was in possession of several missiles that exceeded the UN allowable range. They weren't the flashy chemical "WMDs", but their possession clearly violated the UN's resolutions...

Forgive the bad formatting, the file has been transferred a few times and is the worse for wear.

This is a Time Magazine conversation with Hans Blix on Iraq's admitted and unrecovered "illegal" weapons;

h a v e t h e c a p a b i l i t y o f g o i n g o v e r 1 5 0 k i l o m e t e r s . O n e s h o r t n o t e , h o w e v e r , i s t h a t t h e y w e r e n o t p r o d u c e d c l a n d e s t i n e l y . T h e y d i d d e c l a r e t h e m a l r e a d y i n t h e b a c k l o g o f t h e s e m i - a n n u a l d e c l a r a t i o n s , a n d t h e y h a v e b e e n v e r y f o r t h c o m i n g i n e x p l a i n i n g t o u s t h e v a r i o u s p a r a m e t e r s . N e v e r t h e l e s s , i f t h e y a r e o u t s i d e t h e l i n e s l a i d d o w n b y t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l , t h e n o f c o u r s e t h e y a r e p r o s c r i b e d a n d m u s t b e d e s t r o y e d .
T I M E : Y o u t o l d t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l o n F e b . 1 4 t h a t t h e p e r i o d o f d i s a r m a m e n t c a n s t i l l b e s h o r t w i t h i m m e d i a t e , a c t i v e , a n d u n c o n d i t i o n a l c o o p e r a t i o n . B u t i s t h e r e i m m e d i a t e , a c t i v e , a n d u n c o n d i t i o n a l c o o p e r a t i o n , o r i s n ' t t h e r e ?
B l i x : W e l l , w h e n y o u r e a d t h e r e s t o f t h e s p e e c h . . . I d e s c r i b e d t h e d e g r e e o f c o o p e r a t i o n a n d t h e d e g r e e o f u n c e r t a i n t y . I f ( I r a q ' s r e c e n t l y a p p o i n t e d ) c o m m i s s i o n ( t o s e e k d o c u m e n t s d e m a n d e d b y t h e i n s p e c t o r s ) c o m e s u p w i t h a l o t o f d o c u m e n t s t h a t w e ' v e b e e n l o o k i n g f o r , a n d i f t h e y a r e a u t h e n t i c , i f t h e y a r e f r o m t h e t i m e , w e l l , t h a t i s i n t e r e s t i n g . T h a t c o u l d h e l p u s t o r e s o l v e a l o t o f t h i n g s . I f t h e y d o n ' t , i f t h e y s a y " s o r r y , w e h a v e c h a s e d a l l a r o u n d t h e c o u n t r y a n d c o n f i r m e d t h e r e a r e n ' t a n y . " W e l l , i t m a y b e t r u e o r i t m a y n o t b e t r u e . I w o u l d h a v e t h o u g h t t h a t h a v i n g s u c h d e t a i l e d i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t w h o t o o k p a r t i n t h e t r a n s p o r t a t i o n a n d d e s t r u c t i o n o f p a r t i c u l a r t y p e s o f b i o l o g i c a l w e a p o n s . . . I w o u l d b e s u r p r i s e d i f t h e y h a v e n ' t k e p t s o m e r e c o r d s a l s o o f q u a n t i t i e s , e t c .
T I M E : Y o u d i d s a y t h a t m a n y p r o s c r i b e d w e a p o n s a n d i t e m s , i n c l u d i n g 1 3 t o n s o f c h e m i c a l a g e n t , w e r e u n a c c o u n t e d f o r . Y o u s a i d t h e r e w e r e s i g n i f i c a n t o u t s t a n d i n g i s s u e s o f s u b s t a n c e f r o m p r e v i o u s i n s p e c t i o n r e g i m e s , i n c l u d i n g t h e w h e r e a b o u t s o f p r e v i o u s l y i d e n t i f i e d a n t h r a x , V X , a n d l o n g - r a n g e m i s s i l e s . T h a t s e e m s t o s u g g e s t t h e y ' r e n o t c o o p e r a t i CHNKINK      ˜ ø ÿÿÿÿ TEXT  TEXT  ’…  FDPP  FDPP ˆ   FDPC  FDPC Š   FDPC  FDPC Œ   STSH  STSH Ž h  STSH  STSHh ö  SYID  SYID^’   SGP  SGP r’   INK  INK v’   BTEP  PLC z’   BTEC  PLC ’’  FONT  FONT²’ p  STRS  PLC "“ :  PRNT  WNPR\“ $  FRAM  FRAM€• ˆ  TITL  TITL–   DOP  DOP – ( S u n d a y , F e b . 2 3 , 2 0 0 3
T I M E : H o w m u c h l o n g e r s h o u l d i n s p e c t i o n s t a k e b e f o r e y o u ' d d e c i d e w h e t h e r I r a q i s c o o p e r a t i n g o r n o t ?
D r H a n s B l i x : I f t h e y w e r e t o c o o p e r a t e a s r e q u i r e d u n d e r ( R e s o l u t i o n ) 1 4 4 1 , a c t i v e l y a n d w i t h o u t q u a l i f i c a t i o n s a n d i m m e d i a t e l y , i t s h o u l d n o t t a k e a v e r y l o n g t i m e . N o w i n 1 9 9 1 , o n e e x p e c t e d t h a t t h a t w o u l d b e a c o u p l e o f m o n t h s a t t h e m o s t . A n d t h e r e a f t e r t h e p e r i o d o f m o n i t o r i n g w o u l d e n s u e . M u c h h a s b e e n d e s t r o y e d s i n c e t h e n , s o i t s h o u l d s t i l l b e p o s s i b l e w i t h i n a n u m b e r o f m o n t h s , I t h i n k , t o b e s u r e t h a t a t l e a s t t h e m a j o r p a r t h a d b e e n e r a d i c a t e d . T h e r e w i l l a l w a y s b e  a n d I ' m b e i n g c a r e f u l t o s a y t h a t  a r e s i d u e o f u n c e r t a i n t y . W e u s e d t o t a k e t h e e x a m p l e s o f c o m p u t e r p r o g r a m s , e v e n a p r o t o t y p e o f a c e n t r i f u g e , t h e s e a r e s m a l l p i e c e s a n d y o u c a n n o t b e s u r e t h a t y o u c a t c h t h o s e . B u t l a r g e r t h i n g s , i n d u s t r i a l - s c a l e a c t i v i t i e s , y e s , I t h i n k w i t h i n a n u m b e r o f m o n t h s .
( D u r i n g m y F e b r u a r y 1 4 r e p o r t b a c k t o t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l ) , I d i d n o t , a g a i n , p l e a d f o r m o r e t i m e a s I d i d t h e f i r s t t i m e . . . I f I h a d p l e a d e d f o r m o r e t i m e , i t w o u l d b e p r e d i c a t e d u p o n a n a s s u m p t i o n t h a t w i t h i n t h a t p e r i o d o f t i m e I w o u l d b e a b l e t o d o s o m e t h i n g . A n d I w a s n ' t s u r e w h e t h e r t h e c o o p e r a t i o n w a s t h a t g r e a t . H o w e v e r , i f y o u a s k m e , " w o u l d y o u w e l c o m e i t , " I s a i d y e s , I w o u l d w e l c o m e i t b e c a u s e I t h i n k t h a t w e ' d b e e n t h e r e f o r e l e v e n w e e k s . E i g h t y e a r s o f i n s p e c t i o n s , f o u r y e a r s n o i n s p e c t i o n s , a n d t h e n e l e v e n w e e k s , a n d t h e n c a l l i t a d a y ? I t ' s a l i t t l e s h o r t .
T I M E : D o n ' t I r a q ' s a l - S a m o u d r o c k e t s , w h i c h e x c e e d t h e p r o s c r i b e d r a n g e , c o n s t i t u t e a m a t e r i a l b r e a c h o f R e s o l u t i o n 1 4 4 1 ?
B l i x : T h e d e c i s i o n w h e t h e r s o m e t h i n g i s a m a t e r i a l b r e a c h i s f o r t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l t o m a k e . W e c o n c l u d e t h a t t h e s e m o d i f i e d m i s s i l e s a r e a p r o s c r i b e d c a t e g o r y b e c a u s e t h e y n g .
B l i x : W e l l , i s n o n - d e l i v e r y o f d o c u m e n t s w h i c h t h e y d e n y h a v i n g n o n c o o p e r a t i o n ? I s t h a t t o o s e m a n t i c f o r y o u ? T h e y d e n y t h e y h a v e t h e s e d o c u m e n t s , a n d y o u s a y y o u a r e n o t g i v i n g t h e d o c u m e n t s . T h e r e i s n o c o o p e r a t i o n . W e l l , I d o n ' t h a v e t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t t h e y h a v e t h e m .
T I M E : S o w h e n y o u s a y t o t h e m , w h a t h a p p e n e d t o t h e a n t h r a x , t h e y s a y , w e l l , t h e r e w a s a h o l e i n t h e g r o u n d i n t h e d e s e r t w e p u t i t i n . I s t h a t w h a t t h e y s a y ?
B l i x : Y e s . T h a t ' s r i g h t . E x a c t l y . T h a t ' s w h a t t h e y s a y . I t w a s n o t a h o l e i n t h e g r o u n d , t h e y p o u r e d i t i n t h e g r o u n d . T h e y d i d t h e s a m e t h i n g w i t h t h e V X .
T I M E : D o y o u b e l i e v e t h e m ?
B l i x : W e l l , I ' d l i k e t o s e e e v i d e n c e o f i t . S e e , I d o n ' t w o r k b y g u t f e e l i n g s . I h a v e t o b e t h e l a w y e r . S o m e p e o p l e s a y , j u m p a t t h i s . I t ' s u n a c c o u n t e d f o r , s o w h e r e i s i t ? I s a y , w h e r e i s i t ? I t ' s u n a c c o u n t e d f o r . I ' d l i k e t o s e e e v i d e n c e . W h e r e d i d i t g o ? I ' d l i k e t o i n t e r v i e w t h e p e o p l e . I f t h e y a r e s c r i p t e d , w e m i g h t l e a r n s o m e t h i n g f r o m i t . I f t h e y h a v e c o n t e m p o r a r y d o c u m e n t s , w e c a n r e a d f r o m t h a t a n d e s t a b l i s h w h e t h e r t h e d o c u m e n t s a r e a u t h e n t i c .
T I M E : I f i n t h e e n d y o u d o n ' t g e t t h a t e v i d e n c e ?
B l i x : I n t h a t e v e n t , I w o u l d n o t s a y t h e y a r e g u i l t y . I d o n o t s a y t h e y h a v e t h e m . I s a y t h a t I w i l l n o t r e c o m m e n d t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l t o h a v e a n y c o n f i d e n c e . I f I h a v e e v i d e n c e , t h e n I c a n g i v e t h e m c o n f i d e n c e . B u t i f I d o n ' t h a v e e v i d e n c e , t h e n t h e r e ' s n o c o n f i d e n c e .
T I M E : H a s t h e I r a q i r e g i m e i n t h e p a s t b e e n a n e f f i c i e n t k e e p e r o f r e c o r d s ?
B l i x : W e l l , t h e y ' v e b e e n o n e o f t h e b e s t o r g a n i z e d r e g i m e s i n t h e A r a b w o r l d . I w o u l d s a y y e s . B u t t h e n i f t h e y d e s t r o y e d t h e i r d o c u m e n t s w i t h t h a t e f f i c i e n c y , t h e r e m i g h t b e r e l a t i v e l y l i t t l e l e f t . B u t I t h i n k t h e y ' v e b e e n g o o d i n c e r t a i n p a r t s . A n d w h e n t h e y ' v e h a d n e e d o f s o m e t h i n g t o s h o w , t h e n t h e y h a v e b e e n a b l e t o d o s o .
T I M E : T h e r e a r e a l s o q u e s t i o n s a s t o w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e q u a n t i t y w h i c h I r a q d e c l a r e d o r i g i n a l l y r e p r e s e n t t h e f u l l a m o u n t a n y w a y .
B l i x : Y o u ' r e h i n t i n g a t t h e i r l a c k o f c r e d i b i l i t y . O f c o u r s e t h e y h a v e n o c r e d i b i l i t y . I f t h e y h a d a n y , t h e y c e r t a i n l y l o s t i t i n 1 9 9 1 . I d o n ' t s e e t h a t t h e y h a v e a c q u i r e d a n y c r e d i b i l i t y . W e a t t r i b u t e a b s o l u t e l y n o c r e d i b i l i t y . T h e r e h a s t o b e s o l i d e v i d e n c e o f e v e r y t h i n g , a n d i f t h e r e i s n o t e v i d e n c e o r y o u c a n ' t f i n d i t , I s i m p l y s a y s o r r y , I d o n ' t f i n d a n y e v i d e n c e a n d I c a n n o t g u a r a n t e e o r r e c o m m e n d a n y c o n f i d e n c e . I t m i g h t b e t h e r e , i t m i g h t n o t b e t h e r e .
T I M E : A n d t h e n i t w o u l d b e f o r t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l t o t a k e y o u r l a c k o f c o n f i d e n c e . . .
B l i x : T h a t ' s r i g h t . I n t h e l a s t r e s o r t , t h i s i s a p o l i t i c a l d e c i s i o n .
T I M E : I f S a d d a m H u s s e i n h a d i n t e n t i o n s t o u s e w e a p o n s o f m a s s d e s t r u c t i o n , c o u l d t h o s e i n t e n t i o n s b e n e u t r a l i z e d b y i n s p e c t i o n s a n d m o n i t o r i n g ?
B l i x : W e l l , I t h i n k i t ' s d i f f i c u l t f o r t h e m t o e s t a b l i s h a n i n f r a s t r u c t u r e , a n i n d u s t r i a l i n f r a s t r u c t u r e t h a t i s o f a n y g r e a t s i z e . N u c l e a r i s t h e b e s t e x a m p l e o f i t . Y o u h a d a f a i r l y b i g o n e i n 1 9 9 1 . . . T h e n t h e y w e r e b u i l d i n g e n r i c h m e n t p l a n t s . T h e s e w e r e f a i r l y b i g t h i n g s a n d t h e y w e r e d e s t r o y e d a l t o g e t h e r . E x p l o d e d w i t h d y n a m i t e . I n t h e b a c t e r i o l o g i c a l f i e l d , t h a t c a n b e t h e s m a l l e s t m i n i a t u r e , a n d t h a t ' s w h e r e y o u ' r e m o s t w o r r i e d . O n t h e o t h e r h a n d , p e r h a p s i t i s t h e l e a s t l i k e l y t h i n g t o h a v e f o r a n e x p a n s i o n i s t p o l i c y . F o r a t e r r o r i s t p o l i c y , y e s . B u t f o r a n e x p a n s i o n i s t p o l i c y , I d o n ' t s u p p o s e t h a t y o u g o a n d t a k e S a u d i A r a b i a o u t w i t h b a c t e r i o l o g i c a l w e a p o n s . C h e m i c a l w e a p o n s a r e a l s o n o t s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u w o u l d r e a l l y w i n a w a r w i t h p r o b a b l y . T h e y h a d a g r e a t e r u s e o f i t i n t h e w a r w i t h I r a n . T h a t ' s t r u e . N u c l e a r i s w h a t I t h i n k c o n c e r n s e v e r y b o d y , i n c l u d i n g t h e U . S . , m o s t . N o w , I t h i n k i n t h e U . S . a s s e s s m e n t , i t w o u l d a l s o t a k e a n u m b e r o f y e a r s b e f o r e t h e y c o u l d m o u n t a c a p a c i t y o f t h e i r o w n t o e n r i c h u r a n i u m . G e t t i n g t h e y e l l o w c a k e , t h e r a w m a t e r i a l s , i s n o t s o d i f f i c u l t . B u t t o e n r i c h u r a n i u m r e q u i r e s m u c h m o r e &
I f t h e y w e r e a b l e t o i m p o r t p l u t o n i u m o r 3 0 k i l o g r a m s o f e n r i c h e d u r a n i u m o n t h e b l a c k m a r k e t , t h a t w o u l d b e a d i f f e r e n t s t o r y . I t h i n k t h i s w o r r i e s t h e U . S . B u t i f y o u t a k e t h e l a r g e r i n s t a l l a t i o n s , I t h i n k o n e c o u l d s p o t t h a t t h r o u g h t h e m o n i t o r i n g . B u t m o n i t o r i n g r e q u i r e s p a t i e n c e , a n d I t h i n k w h a t w o r r i e s t h e U . S . i s t h a t r i g h t n o w t h e r e a r e 1 5 0 , 0 0 0 t r o o p s o u t t h e r e , b u t i f t h i s g o e s i n t o m o n i t o r i n g a n d e v e r y o n e i s t i r e d , t h e n m a y b e S a d d a m w i l l b e g i n t o s q u e e z e o u t t h e i n s p e c t o r s t h e r e .
T I M E : S o , t h e c r e d i b l e t h r e a t o f f o r c e i s n e c e s s a r y t o g e t e v e n m i n i m a l c o m p l i a n c e f r o m I r a q ?
B l i x : J u s t a s K o f i A n n a n s a y s , d i p l o m a c y m a y n e e d t o b e b a c k e d u p b y f o r c e . I n s p e c t i o n s m a y n e e d t o b e b a c k e d u p b y p r e s s u r e . Y e s . I d o n ' t t h i n k t h e r e w o u l d h a v e b e e n a n y i n s p e c t i o n b u t f o r o u t s i d e p r e s s u r e , i n c l u d i n g ( t h e b u i l d u p o f ) U . S . f o r c e s .
T I M E : H o w m u c h m o r e t i m e s h o u l d b e a l l o w e d f o r c o n t i n u e d i n s p e c t i o n s ? D o y o u t h i n k a n o t h e r t h r e e m o n t h s i s r e a s o n a b l e ? T h a t s i x m o n t h s i s t o o l o n g ?
B l i x : W e l l , w e a g a i n a s s u m e t h a t t h e y w o u l d c o o p e r a t e . I f t h e y c o o p e r a t e f u l l y a n d s p o n t a n e o u s l y , t h e n I s a y t h e t i m e s h o u l d b e s h o r t . I f i t ' s a m o d e r a t e a m o u n t o f c o o p e r a t i o n , w e l l , w e a r e e d g i n g f o r w a r d . . . . A n d p r o v i d e d t h a t y o u h a v e t h e p r e s s u r e o n a l l t h e t i m e . W e s e e c h a n g e s i n c h b y i n c h b y i n c h h e r e . I f y o u w a n t t o v e r i f y . . . s u p p o s e t h e r e a r e l o t s o f p l a c e s t h a t t h e y w o u l d l i k e t o t a k e u s t o , l o t s o f t h i n g s , p e o p l e t o i n t e r v i e w , t h e d o c u m e n t s t h a t a r e o b s c u r e , e t c . , w e l l t h e v e r y v e r i f i c a t i o n i t s e l f w i l l t a k e s o m e t i m e . Y e s . W e w o u l d b e a b l e t o d o t h a t b y t h e m i d d l e o f M a r c h o r e v e n t h e f i r s t o f A p r i l ? N o , ( a s s u m i n g t h e y c o o p e r a t e ) i t w o u l d t a k e l o n g e r t h a n t h a t . . . I t ' s a q u e s t i o n o f m o n t h s .
T I M E : W h e n d o y o u n e x t r e p o r t t o t h e S e c u r i t y C o u n c i l ?
B l i x : A w r i t t e n r e p o r t ( i s d u e ) o n t h e f i r s t o f M a r c h . ( A n d I w i l l d i s c u s s i t w i t h t h e C o u n c i l ) t h e f o l l o w i n g w e e k . . .
T I M E : I g u e s s o n e o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t p u z z l e s p e o p l e i s t h e v e r y c a r e f u l , n o n j u d g m e n t a l w a y t h a t y o u w r i t e t h e s e r e p o r t s . Y o u s a y t h a t t h e I r a q i g o v e r n m e n t h a s s e t u p t w o c o m m i s s i o n s , a n d y o u w r i t e t h a t d o w n . A n d t h e I r a q i P a r l i a m e n t h a s p a s s e d a d e c r e e , a n d y o u w r i t e t h a t d o w n . A n d n o j u d g m e n t i s m a d e a b o u t I r a q i g o v e r n m e n t c o m m i s s i o n s a n d I r a q i g o v e r n m e n t d e c r e e s . B u t t h e r e s t o f u s s a y , w e l l , t h i s i s a t o t a l i t a r i a n r e g i m e . A c o m m i s s i o n ? L e g i s l a t i o n t h r o u g h P a r l i a m e n t ? T h i s i s a j o k e .
B l i x : Y o u s a y i t ' s c o m p l e t e l y w i t h o u t j u d g e m e n t . W e l l , I s a i d o n t h e c o m m i s s i o n s t h e r e i s a n i n n u e n d o i n s a y i n g , " i f t h e y a r e s e r i o u s . " T h e p r o o f o f t h e p u d d i n g i s i n t h e e a t i n g . W i l l t h e y c o m e u p w i t h m o r e w a r h e a d s ? A t t h e p r e s e n t s t a g e , t h e r e w a s a v e r y g u a r d e d h o p e f u l n e s s . I n B a g h d a d , w h e n w e c a m e f r o m t h e m s o m e o n e s a i d , t h i s i s a b r e a k t h r o u g h . I s a i d , n o , n o , i t ' s n o t a b r e a k t h r o u g h .
T I M E : T h o s e s k e p t i c a l o f i n s p e c t i o n s s a y t h a t o n l y d e f e c t o r s p r o d u c e d b r e a k t h r o u g h s i n t h e p a s t &
B l i x : T h a t ' s n o n s e n s e . S o m e p e o p l e s a y t h a t t h e e a r l y d i s c o v e r i e s i n t h e n u c l e a r f i e l d w e r e d u e t o d e f e c t o r s . T h e r e w e r e d e f e c t o r s i n t h i s s p h e r e , b u t m y r e c o l l e c t i o n i s t h a t a m a j o r p a r t o f i t w a s s a t e l l i t e i n f o r m a t i o n a t t h a t t i m e . M u c h o f t h e V X s u s p i c i o n s c o m e s f r o m s a m p l i n g . T h e f i r s t s u s p i c i o n s a b o u t I r a q e n r i c h i n g u r a n i u m i s a n i c e s t o r y w h i c h y o u m a y n o t h a v e h e a r d . B u t d o y o u r e m e m b e r b e f o r e t h e G u l f W a r , t h e I r a q i s t o o k h o s t a g e s . T h e n t h e h o s t a g e s w e r e r e l e a s e d , a n d t h e U . S . t o o k t h e i r c l o t h e s a n d o n t h e c l o t h e s t h e r e w a s d u s t . T h e y a n a l y z e d i t a t t h e i r l a b o r a t o r i e s a n d t h e y s a i d , a h , t h e r e ' s t h e e n r i c h m e n t &
D e f e c t o r s a r e v a l u a b l e , b u t y o u h a v e t o b e v e r y c a u t i o u s w i t h d e f e c t o r s . D e f e c t o r s h a v e a n a t u r a l w i s h t o m a k e t h e m s e l v e s i n t e r e s t i n g a n d p r o v i d e t h i n g s t h a t a r e s e n s a t i o n a l . I t i n c r e a s e s t h e i r c h a n c e s o f a s y l u m . A n d t h e C I A a n d e v e r y b o d y k n o w s t h a t . A n d a l o t o f i t c o m e s i n a s n o n s e n s e .
T I M E : W h a t a b o u t t h e i n t e r v i e w s w i t h s c i e n t i s t s ? I t w o u l d t a k e a m a n o f i n c r e d i b l e c o u r a g e o r i n s a n i t y t o s a y s o m e t h i n g t h a t m i g h t g e t b a c k t o t h e r e g i m e t h a t i s i n c r i m i n a t i n g . H a v e y o u l e a r n e d a n y t h i n g f r o m i n t e r v i e w s w i t h s c i e n t i s t s t h a t , i n f a c t , i s i n c r i m i n a t i n g ?
B l i x : Y e s . I t ' s n o t q u i t e a s b l a c k a n d w h i t e a s t h a t . O f c o u r s e , I ' m c o n s c i o u s o f t h e i r b u g g i n g a n d t h e r e c o r d e r i n t h e p o c k e t a n d t h e f e a r i f y o u h a v e i t r e c o r d e d a n d t h e y w o u l d g o b a c k , a n d t h e y ' d s a y , o h , y o u s a i d t h e w r o n g t h i n g h e r e . Y o u s h o u l d n ' t h a v e d o n e t h a t . Y o u g o a n d b e h a n g e d t h e n e x t d a y . B e c a u s e e v e n i n t e r v i e w s w i t h m i n d e r s p r e s e n t i n t h e p a s t h a v e o f t e n g i v e n a l o t o f i n f o r m a t i o n . Y o u s e e , w h e n m a n a g e r s a r e p r o d u c e r s o f m u s t a r d , o r y o u h a v e r e s e a r c h e r s o n b i o l o g i c a l e v i d e n c e t a l k t o e a c h o t h e r , o u r p e o p l e a r e s c i e n t i s t s . T h e y a r e c a p a b l e i n t h e i r o w n f i e l d . T h e r e i s a l i m i t t o h o w m u c h y o u c a n l i e b e t w e e n t w o p e o p l e w h o a r e c o m p e t e n t i n t h e f i e l d . S o i n t h e p a s t , a g r e a t d e a l o f u s e f u l i n f o r m a t i o n h a s c o m e o u t e v e n w h e n t h e r e a r e m i n d e r s p r e s e n t . T h e r e a s o n w h y t h i s b u s i n e s s a b o u t p r i v a t e i n t e r v i e w s h a s c o m e u p i s t h a t t h e I r a q i s c e r t a i n l y m i s u s e d t h i s . T h e y h a d m a n y m i n d e r s p r e s e n t . T h e r e w a s o n e p e r s o n i n t e r v i e w e d , a n d p e r h a p s a n u m b e r , h a l f a d o z e n o f m i n d e r s . M o s t q u e s t i o n s t h e y a n s w e r e d a n d t h e n t h e m i n d e r s w o u l d i n t e r r u p t t h e m . T h e y ' d s a y , n o , y o u ' r e w r o n g . Y o u r e m e m b e r w r o n g t h e r e . Y e s , o f c o u r s e , y o u a r e r i g h t . T h i s i s t h e w a y i t w a s . S o t h e n i t w a s s o r t o f p a t e n t , a n d t h a t ' s w h y w e s a y i t s h o u l d b e p r i v a t e i n t e r v i e w s . B u t i t ' s v e r y h a r d t o g e t t o t h a t u n d e r c o n d i t i o n s t h a t g i v e f u l l c r e d i b i l i t y .
T I M E : D o e s n ' t t h a t m e a n t h e y a r e n o t c o o p e r a t i n g , t h e n ?
B l i x : S u s p i c i o n a r i s e s t h a t t h e a u t h o r i t i e s w o u l d n o t l i k e t o c o o p e r a t e . W h a t t h e y s h o u l d s a y i s , g o t h e r e . B e a p a t r i o t . T h e r e i s n o t h i n g t o h i d e . S o s p e a k y o u r m i n d . W e d o n ' t n e e d t o b e t h e r e .
T I M E : B u t t h e y d o n ' t s a y t h a t .
B l i x : N o . W h a t t h e y s a y i s , o u r e x p e r i e n c e w i t h U N S C O M w a s v e r y b a d  i f y o u d i d n ' t h a v e a n i n t e r p r e t e r f r o m o u r s i d e , t h e r e w e r e m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g s , a n d s o m e t i m e s t h e i n t e r r o g a t o r s w e r e g i v i n g l e a d i n g q u e s t i o n s , e t c . A n d t h e y s a y , i f y o u a r e s e i z e d b y t h e p o l i c e i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , i f y o u ' r e l u c k y y o u m a y h a v e y o u r C o n s u l p r e s e n t . I t ' s a g e n e r a l r u l e t h a t y o u s h o u l d b e a b l e t o h a v e a n o f f i c i a l f r o m t h e c o u n t r y . W e l l , i t ' s a d i f f e r e n t t h i n g i f i t ' s a t o t a l i t a r i a n c o u n t r y . W e a l l k n o w t h a t . B u t I a g r e e w i t h y o u . I t h i n k i t i s a n e l e m e n t t h a t t h r o w s d o u b t u p o n t h e i r s i n c e r i t y i n t h a t w e d o n o t g e t p e o p l e c o m i n g f o r t h a n d s p e a k i n g w i t h o u t f e a r .
T I M E : W h a t w i l l i t t a k e f o r y o u t o s a y e n o u g h ? E n o u g h . Y o u ' r e d r i b b l i n g t h i s o u t .
B l i x : W e l l , w e ' v e o n l y b e e n d r i b b l i n g n o w f o r t w e l v e w e e k s .
T I M E : S o y o u ' d l i k e t o d r i b b l e t w e l v e m o r e ?
B l i x : I ' d l i k e t o g o o n , y e s .
T I M E : Y o u ' v e s a i d t h e b o t t o m l i n e i s t h e e x t e n t o f c o o p e r a t i o n . S h o u l d w e b e s a t i s f i e d t o o m u c h l o n g e r ?
B l i x : W e l l , t h a t ' s f o r t h e C o u n c i l t o d e c i d e . I ' m s a y i n g t h a t w e ' v e o n l y b e e n a t t h i s f o r t w e l v e w e e k s . I f t h e C o u n c i l a s k e d m e p o i n t - b l a n k , " D o y o u t h i n k i t ' s m e a n i n g f u l t o c o n t i n u e " . . . t h e y c o u l d a s k m e t h a t . T h e y h a v e n ' t a s k e d m e t h a t , b u t t h e y c o u l d d o t h a t .
T I M E : W h a t w o u l d y o u s a y ?
B l i x : W e l l , I w o u l d s a y w h a t I d i d o n t h e 1 4 t h o f F e b r u a r y . I f i t w e r e a m o n t h l a t e r , I w o u l d r e g i s t e r w h a t h a s h a p p e n e d s i n c e t h e n . I d o n ' t k n o w w h a t w i l l h a p p e n i n t h a t p e r i o d . I f t h e y g o b a c k , i f i t t u r n s o u t t h a t e v e r y w i t n e s s i s s c r i p t e d , i f t h e y d o n ' t f i n d a n y d o c u m e n t s a n d w e ' r e j u s t s o r t o f s w i m m i n g i n t h e s a m e s p o t , t h a t w o u l d p r e s u m a b l y b e a n e g a t i v e .
T I M E : W h a t ' s t h e b e s t p o s s i b l e o u t c o m e o f a l l t h i s ?
B l i x : P r e s i d e n t B u s h h a s s a i d i t t w o w a y s . E i t h e r y o u c h a n g e t h e r e g i m e , o r i t c h a n g e s i t s a t t i t u d e . T h e r e w o u l d b e a c h a n g e a n y w a y . F i n e w i t h m e & Y o u h a v e t o c o m p a r e y o u r o p t i o n s & I t h i n k t h a t 9 / 1 1 i s t h e w a t e r s h e d b e t w e e n t h e E u r o p e a n s a n d t h e A m e r i c a n s . T h e E u r o p e a n s a r e n o t a s w o r r i e d a b o u t a s u d d e n a t t a c k w i t h a n y o f t h e s e w e a p o n s a s y o u a r e i n t h i s c o u n t r y . H e r e i t ' s a t r a u m a s t i l l , a n d i t ' s u n d e r s t a n d a b l e t h a t p o l i t i c a l o r g a n s w a n t t o t a k e e v e r y s t e p t h a t i s p r u d e n t t o p r e v e n t i t h a p p e n i n g i n t h e f u t u r e . B u t w h e n y o u l o o k a t t h e o p t i o n s y o u h a v e , t h e n , o n e b e i n g i n s p e c t i o n w h i c h I a m i n s t r u c t e d t o d o t h e b e s t p o s s i b l y t h a t I c a n , w h a t d o e s i t r e q u i r e ? W e l l , i t r e q u i r e s p e r h a p s 3 5 0 t o 4 0 0 p e o p l e , a n d i t r e q u i r e s $ 8 0 m i l l i o n a y e a r , a n d t h e r e a r e a n u m b e r o f s h o r t c o m i n g s . I f w e m a y f i n d t h a t w e d o n ' t a d v a n c e a n i n c h , w e l l i n t h a t c a s e I t h i n k i t w o u l d b e o v e r . B u t i f t h e r e i s p r o g r e s s o n t h i s a n d t h e r e i s a m e a s u r e o f a f a i r l y h i g h l e v e l o f a s s u r a n c e t h a t t h e r e i s n ' t a n y t h i n g l e f t a n d t h a t y o u c a n m o n i t o r , t h e n y o u h a v e t h e u n c e r t a i n t y a b o u t c a v e s a n d t h i n g s l i k e t h a t . T h e y c o u l d t h r o w o u t t h e i n s p e c t o r s o n e y e a r . T h e n y o u l o o k a t t h e o t h e r o p t i o n t h a t w e ' r e c o n s i d e r i n g , t h e u s e o f f o r c e w h i c h w i l l r e q u i r e 2 5 0 , 0 0 0 m e n ? A n d i t w i l l r e q u i r e $ 1 0 0 b i l l i o n o r m o r e a y e a r ? a n d i t a l s o h a s s o m e n e g a t i v e s i d e s . B l o o d , d e s t r u c t i o n , a n d t h e p o l i t i c a l e f f e c t s i n t h e M i d d l e E a s t . I ' m n o t c r i t i c i z i n g t h o s e w h o a d v o c a t e t h i s . I ' m p u t h e r e i n o r d e r t o d o t h e b e s t p o s s i b l e j o b o f t h e o t h e r o p t i o n . A n d I d o t h a t . I t r y t o d o t h a t .
T I M E : W o u l d i t b e u s e f u l i f t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s i t s a l l i e s s a i d I r a q m u s t p r o v i d e s p e c i f i c i n f o r m a t i o n b y a s p e c i f i c d a t e , o r e l s e f a c e i n v a s i o n ?
B l i x : M a y b e s o . T h a t ' s a t i m e l i n e . T h a t ' s a s o r t o f u l t i m a t u m , y e s . M a n y p e o p l e a r e a d v o c a t i n g t h a t a t t h e m o m e n t . I w o u l d s a y t h a t a n u l t i m a t u m o r a t i m e l i n e i s a w a y o f e x e r t i n g a v e r y s t r o n g p r e s s u r e . S u c h a t h i n g w i t h o u t a n o u t s i d e p r e s s u r e o f f o r c e i s n o t v e r y u s e f u l . T h a t d o e s n ' t h e l p . B u t w i t h t h e m a i n t e n a n c e o f w h a t y o u h a v e , y e s , I t h i n k t h a t s h o w s t h a t t h e y c a n n o t d r a g i t o n f o r e v e r . A s I i n t e r p r e t V i l l e p i n a n d o t h e r s a n d s e e w h a t t h e E u r o p e a n s s a i d , I d o n o t s e e t h a t t h e y a r e f u n d a m e n t a l l y o p p o s e d t o t h a t . I t ' s a q u e s t i o n o f t i m i n g .
F r o m t h e M a r . 0 3 , 2 0 0 3 i s s u e o f T I M E m a g a z i n e



E u r o p e a n s a r e n o t a s w o r r i e d a b o u t a s u d d e n a t t a c k w i t h 9 

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pottersan
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pottersan wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
Howdy! supersoldier is correct. I have a hard drive somewhere with about 10 examples of things that were found. Let me try and find it this week.

Some of the chemicals were rumored to have been shipped out to Suria in fact. There were several chemical and other weapons banned to Iraq that showed up in European scrapyards. All of which were being hussled out of Iraq while he was blocking inspections.

Even simpler, he was in possession of several missiles that exceeded the UN allowable range. They weren't the flashy chemical "WMDs", but their possession clearly violated the UN's resolutions...



From the department of Defense;

Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
By Samantha L. Quigley
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

"Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

"Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

"I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning.

Biographies:
Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, USA

Related Sites:
Defense Intelligence Agency
National Ground Intelligence Center




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pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:17:50 PM

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pottersan wrote:
pottersan wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
Howdy! supersoldier is correct. I have a hard drive somewhere with about 10 examples of things that were found. Let me try and find it this week.

Some of the chemicals were rumored to have been shipped out to Suria in fact. There were several chemical and other weapons banned to Iraq that showed up in European scrapyards. All of which were being hussled out of Iraq while he was blocking inspections.

Even simpler, he was in possession of several missiles that exceeded the UN allowable range. They weren't the flashy chemical "WMDs", but their possession clearly violated the UN's resolutions...



From the department of Defense;

Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
By Samantha L. Quigley
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

"Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

"Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

"I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning.

Biographies:
Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, USA

Related Sites:
Defense Intelligence Agency
National Ground Intelligence Center


Another report on those 500 munitions;

Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq
Thursday, June 22, 2006
E-MAIL STORY RESPOND TO EDITOR PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION Story tools
sponsored by
WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since
2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two
Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.
"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick
Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday
afternoon.
Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground
Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said:
"Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions
which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to
locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled
pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."
• Click here to read the declassified portion of the NGIC report.
He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could
still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.
Did U.S. Troops Find WMDs? "The purity of the agents inside the munitions
depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential
additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time,
chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," Santorum read
from the document.
"This says weapons have been discovered, more weapons exist and they state that
Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the
materials that are or may still be in Iraq," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich.,
chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be
proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam
Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that
years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these
munitions.
Hoekstra said the report, completed in April but only declassified now, shows
that "there is still a lot about Iraq that we don't fully understand."
Asked why the Bush administration, if it had known about the information since
April or earlier, didn't advertise it, Hoekstra conjectured that the president
has been forward-looking and concentrating on the development of a secure
government in Iraq.
Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense
Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable
conditions.
"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official
said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the
world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons
inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of
chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent
and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on
the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.
He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003
invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven
itself to be untrue.
"It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more
than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical
weapons have been discovered mixed within them.
Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a
16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of
continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was
insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG
left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of
collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and
sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were
incomplete, they and others have said.
"We know it was there, in place, it just wasn't operative when inspectors got
there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the
scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that's
what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they
were certainly headed in that direction," said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly
Standard and a FOX News contributor.
"It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered
the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it
again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think,
there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq,"
Barnes said.
The release of the declassified materials comes as the Senate debates Democratic
proposals to create a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. The
debate has had the effect of creating disunity among Democrats, a majority of
whom shrunk Wednesday from an amendment proposed by Sen. John Kerry of
Massachusetts to have troops to be completely withdrawn from Iraq by the middle
of next year.
At the same time, congressional Republicans have stayed highly united, rallying
around a White House that has seen successes in the last couple weeks, first
with the death of terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, then the completion of the
formation of Iraq's Cabinet and then the announcement Tuesday that another key
Al Qaeda in Iraq leader, "religious emir" Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi
al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was also killed in a U.S. airstrike.
Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats
said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he
said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.
"This is an incredibly — in my mind — significant finding. The idea that, as my
colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle,
that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.
As a result of this new information, under the aegis of his chairmanship,
Hoekstra said he is going to ask for more reporting by the various intelligence
agencies about weapons of mass destruction.
"We are working on the declassification of the report. We are going to do a
thorough search of what additional reports exist in the intelligence community.
And we are going to put additional pressure on the Department of Defense and the
folks in Iraq to more fully pursue a complete investigation of what existed in
Iraq before the war," Hoekstra said.

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pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:20:57 PM

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pottersan wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
SuperSoldier124 wrote:
comicuniversity wrote:
As far as you disputing the "manufactured evidence". Dude...you realize that Hussein didn't have WMD? Right? You're not that deluded right? I mean, you realize that all of that was a total lie? You can't be that deluded.
i dunno dude i was in Iraq a year after the invasion and found plenty of chemicals. another SSG in my platoon got testicular cancer from clearing those warehouses. lots of stuff the general civilian population doesn't know about.



But we do now. lol. Are you one of those whistleblowers? Is your last name Snowden? lol.
Howdy! supersoldier is correct. I have a hard drive somewhere with about 10 examples of things that were found. Let me try and find it this week.

Some of the chemicals were rumored to have been shipped out to Suria in fact. There were several chemical and other weapons banned to Iraq that showed up in European scrapyards. All of which were being hussled out of Iraq while he was blocking inspections.

Even simpler, he was in possession of several missiles that exceeded the UN allowable range. They weren't the flashy chemical "WMDs", but their possession clearly violated the UN's resolutions...


Last one for tonight, I'll post more info tomorrow....

At last! Have they finally found a 'weapon of mass destruction' in Iraq?By Carol Driver
Last updated at 10:23 AM on 5th February 2010

Comments (334) Add to My Stories

They have been searching in Iraq for the past nine years, 10 months and 15 days.

Today, the hard work finally paid off as soldiers found one of those elusive ‘weapons of mass destruction’ that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have been hiding.
So is it all round to Tony Blair's house for celebratory drinks?
Iraqi army Explosive discovery: Iraqi army officials with the rocket they found

Unfortunately the discovery came just a few days late for the former prime minister, who could have used the extraordinary find as proof he was right about Iraq all along during the Chilcot Inquiry.
But from the looks of the rocket, it would appear unlikely it could be deployed anywhere in 45 minutes, let alone be fired at the UK, as a certain dossier led us to believe.
The bomb is thought to have been buried by Saddam Hussein's regime before the UK and U.S. invasion of Iraq started in 2003.
Iraqi guards were as surprised as the rest of us to discover the 'missile' during an operation in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib suburb.
It is not yet known whether the seven-metre rocket is armed with a warhead.



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comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:31:37 PM
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lol. I would advise readin those articles before using them as evidence.

I mean, even a cursory glance showed that your last article directly contradicts the others.

I mean, the last one says they finally found the FIRST WMD.....in an article dated 2010. And, the other articles are before 2010. So.....draw your own conclusions, I guess.

I mean, potter, you know your my guy.

But the other reports, that are directly contradicted by your last one talk about stores of chemicals that had been sitting, unused for over a decade...not the WMDS that W. sold us on....and you know that.


We hear a lot about these reports of a store of degraded chemicals that aren't weaponizeable(?)...however, in enough doses they could be lethal. First, we all know that aint what W. was talking about.

Second, in enough doses dish soap can be lethal.
comicuniversity
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:44:48 PM
Rank: Herald of Galactus
Groups: Member, Moderator

Joined: 4/18/2012
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sigh....listen, this can be argued up and down....and, this is ACTUALLY opinion.

Do you believe that W. convinced the country to go to war to get rid of some canisters of degraded 20 year old chemicals? I don't...but that's actually an argument that can be had...and both sides can make points.


And, the points of both sides would be valid.

I mean, W. himself has come out and said he sent the country to war on bogus info. (I'm paraphrasing). so....basically, I am believing him. But, of course, i'm being consistent (and maybe stupid), because I believed him when he sold us on the fact that Saddam had nuclear material and WMD capable weapons and heavy al quaeda links. So......basically, you can believe him once, both times, or not at all. lol.


I dunno. I'm tired. My original point has been completely lost....and i'm rambling. So, everybody have a great night.

I'll post Blade trinity in my movie thread soon.
pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:48:55 PM

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comicuniversity wrote:
lol. I would advise readin those articles before using them as evidence.

I mean, even a cursory glance showed that your last article directly contradicts the others.

I mean, the last one says they finally found the FIRST WMD.....in an article dated 2010. And, the other articles are before 2010. So.....draw your own conclusions, I guess.

I mean, potter, you know your my guy.

But the other reports, that are directly contradicted by your last one talk about stores of chemicals that had been sitting, unused for over a decade...not the WMDS that W. sold us on....and you know that.


We hear a lot about these reports of a store of degraded chemicals that aren't weaponizeable(?)...however, in enough doses they could be lethal. First, we all know that aint what W. was talking about.

Second, in enough doses dish soap can be lethal.
My point is read the UN resolutions and see what they actually said. They were very specific on what he could and could not have and the actions that were allowable in the event of any breach... I think they were 677 678 686 and 687...I'll post them later this week...

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pottersan
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:51:32 PM

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comicuniversity wrote:
...I mean, even a cursory glance showed that your last article directly contradicts the others.

I mean, the last one says they finally found the FIRST WMD.....in an article dated 2010. And, the other articles are before 2010. So.....draw your own conclusions, I guess....

The article was from the Daily Mail in the UK, so I'm sure they did not do their homework too well to know about the previous discoveries...Probably too busy waiting to see what Victoria was wearing to her hubbies soccer match!

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