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Terrible Writing Options
BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:14:25 AM

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What's some of the worst writing you've come across in your comic reading?

I came across one of the laziest, worst example of terrible writing in a comic that I've seen in a loooong time.

It shouldn't have come as a surprise considering what I was reading, but I wanted to know an important part of Guy Gardner's history, so I bought it for dirt cheap to read it anyways. It was "The Way of the Warrior" storyline that ran through Justice League America, Guy Gardner: Warrior, and Hawkman in the mid-90s. Supposedly it tells the origin of the Vuldarians and Guy's weird alien powers he had then, which is why I wanted to read it.



Here's the bad writing part:

At the end of Part 1, the final panel shows Arisia dying in Tiger Man's arms after being attacked, and Guy Gardner's powers completely spazzing out and him being a genetic mess on the ground. So then I go to open Part 2, and there's no mention of Arisia AT ALL, and Guy Gardner is A-Okay with absolutely zero explanation and is about to lead a team to counter-attack the aliens that just attacked them.

...WTF?! DC just ignores the cliffhanger ending of Part 1 and pretends it never happened, IN THE SAME STORYLINE?! I just put it down and stopped reading after that.

What are some of the worst that you've read?

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frozilla
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:30:33 AM

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This was just God-awful. Ham-fisted plot and the characters were not written properly or accurately. I thought since it was two characters i really liked, it'd be nice to see them interact; not so much.

Blah.

Big signatures are REALLY annoying.
Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:00:54 AM

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Final Crisis.
Incoherent drug-induced rambling at it's "finest".
Worst. Deus. Ex. Machina. Ever.
Seriously? Superman fixes everything by singing a wish (but forgets to wish for his Pa back)?
What a total piece $h!t.

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
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G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

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monidaw1
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:23:48 PM

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Avenger's #5 from the 1960's.

Giant-Man picks up a helicopter from the bottom to blow the lava men back down a hole. The story should have ended right there since air flows the opposite direction pictured resulting in sucking them in towards the blades, slicing and spraying their lava bodies everywhere killing Giant-Man, Wasp and Captain America and ending the Avengers as a team.

Fortunately a suitable punishment was handed out to the creaters along with a No-Prize of not allowing Giant-Man to ever appear in his own title or even a title with his name in it until at least 60 years has passed.

Bamf!!! Photobucket Pages

puyaybusto
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:43:47 PM

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Squadron Supreme from 2008-2009. I don't think anyone cared about being on this book. The writing was horrible and in the final 2 issues there were typos and blank word bubbles. Really a letdown.


BurningDoom
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 5:25:54 PM

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Xylob wrote:
Final Crisis.
Incoherent drug-induced rambling at it's "finest".
Worst. Deus. Ex. Machina. Ever.
Seriously? Superman fixes everything by singing a wish (but forgets to wish for his Pa back)?
What a total piece $h!t.


For sure. The ONLY good thing about that event were the gorgeous J.G. Jones covers.



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padreglcc
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:31:04 PM

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Xylob wrote:
Final Crisis.
Incoherent drug-induced rambling at it's "finest".
Worst. Deus. Ex. Machina. Ever.
Seriously? Superman fixes everything by singing a wish (but forgets to wish for his Pa back)?
What a total piece $h!t.

A-frickin-Men!

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Dementia5
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:40:22 PM

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I'll bite.

There may be worst out there, but none that got as much attention as:



and

their second attempt. Just when you thought Secret Wars couldn't get any worse.

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outcast
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:56:46 PM
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What I find interesting is that there is such a high correlation between "worst comic-book writing" and company-wide crossovers.
Xylob
Posted: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:13:52 PM

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the sad part is that we all seem to take the bait every time...

It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cents or 50 Dollars - if you list it as NM it better be NM.
Xylob's Most Wanted:

G.I.Joe Special Missions TPB 2
Tales from the Transformers Beast Wars: Critical Mass
Youngblood Bloodsport #2 maybe? can you help identify?

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Dementia5
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:05:46 AM

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outcast wrote:
What I find interesting is that there is such a high correlation between "worst comic-book writing" and company-wide crossovers.


You can thank Jim Shooter for that.

"We make a pretty good team, even if we don't work together." - My son





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LordMikel
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:19:22 AM
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Captain America/ Batman and Darkseid Vs Galuctus.

These are the types of books that make me say, "John Byrne is a crappy writer." Anyone who says he is a good writer and I point them to these books and argument won.

The Batman/Captain America book simply never did anything exciting. And it had the exact same ending as Captain America mythos.

Darkseid vs Galuctus. Their fight scene was 2 pages long. Darkseid used his beams, they had no effect on Galactus, and then he says, "Well you win." At the time Silver Surfer was a top selling comic book and had a very interesting storyline, for this dreck to arrive, it was sad.
Thundercron
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:49:16 PM

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Daredevil #274-#281. I won't say this storyline was terrible, but it featured Gorgon and Karnak from the Inhumans, and Ann Nocenti wrote their dialogue as if they were some dudes from the streets of New York, complete with high-fiving each other. What happened to all the royal Inhuman speak? Ann Nocenti was very heavy-handed with "messages"--maybe she was trying to make a point with their behavior. But I was in sixth grade at the time. I must've missed it.
BurningDoom
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:02:13 PM

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LordMikel wrote:
Captain America/ Batman and Darkseid Vs Galuctus.

These are the types of books that make me say, "John Byrne is a crappy writer." Anyone who says he is a good writer and I point them to these books and argument won.

The Batman/Captain America book simply never did anything exciting. And it had the exact same ending as Captain America mythos.

Darkseid vs Galuctus. Their fight scene was 2 pages long. Darkseid used his beams, they had no effect on Galactus, and then he says, "Well you win." At the time Silver Surfer was a top selling comic book and had a very interesting storyline, for this dreck to arrive, it was sad.


But he also did one of the most memorable runs in FF history since Stan Lee's run. And he did the pivotal and memorable Post-Crisis "Superman" issues. Even the best writers can't write Eisner Award winning material everytime.

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Dementia5
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 7:29:55 PM

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Without question, John Byrne is the most versatile comic-book talent of the 20th century and can be forgiven for writing a handful of clunkers. Even Neil Young is forgiven one bad song per album. Let's refer to John Byrne as the Robert Plant of comics.

I cannot think of a single comic-book creator who can even hold a candle to the equi-partitioned talent in both writing and drawing at anytime during his/her long career; maybe Kirby but I suspect Stan the Man had a lot of say in the quality of his deliverables.

Alongside the stellar FF and Superman run, he is jointly responsible for the best story arc the X-Men will ever see, has been awarded two Eagle awards and has been inducted in the Comic Book Creator Hall of Fame. He is directly responsible for a quorum of Marvel readers defecting to DC, as followers of his work, leading to DCs claim to #1 in sales in 1986... a feat not matched since the late 50s.

I think he is responsible for bridging today's readers with most Silver Age readers; members of both camps praise his work so often and loudly.

His Next Men is often lauded with the same level of credibility and acceptance as another creator-owned product, that of Mignola's HellBoy.

Take away all these deeds, and we haven't even touched upon his artwork, which many, including myself, consider to be second to none. When I read John Byrne, it's money in the bank for me. His consistency is outright spectacular, and he has never missed a deadline. Not once.

With all this, I would not only qualify Byrne as an exemplary story-teller, but as the best writer in the business with a legacy that will last longer than just about anyone breaking onto the scene over the past decade.

And he still delivers... The Atom (2006) saw him in good form.




"We make a pretty good team, even if we don't work together." - My son





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...Dementia 5 Blog...



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outcast
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:21:04 PM
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Dementia5 wrote:
outcast wrote:
What I find interesting is that there is such a high correlation between "worst comic-book writing" and company-wide crossovers.


You can thank Jim Shooter for that.
Well yes, there's no getting around Shooter's responsibility for Secret Wars. However, DC under Jenette Kahn had more than its share of bad universe-wide crossovers, too.
outcast
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:20:50 PM
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Dementia5 wrote:
Without question, John Byrne is the most versatile comic-book talent of the 20th century and can be forgiven for writing a handful of clunkers. Even Neil Young is forgiven one bad song per album. Let's refer to John Byrne as the Robert Plant of comics.
"Most versatile comic-book talent of the 20th century" covers a helluva lot of territory. More versatile than Will Eisner? Than Jack Kirby (taking into account his entire career, not just the tin-eared writing in his post-1970 work)? Than Walt Kelly (who did outstanding comic-book work before settling into a newspaper comics career)? Than Harvey Kurtzman? Than Carl Barks? Than Walter Simonson?

Dementia5 wrote:
I cannot think of a single comic-book creator who can even hold a candle to the equi-partitioned talent in both writing and drawing at anytime during his/her long career; maybe Kirby but I suspect Stan the Man had a lot of say in the quality of his deliverables.

Alongside the stellar FF and Superman run, he is jointly responsible for the best story arc the X-Men will ever see, has been awarded two Eagle awards and has been inducted in the Comic Book Creator Hall of Fame. He is directly responsible for a quorum of Marvel readers defecting to DC, as followers of his work, leading to DCs claim to #1 in sales in 1986... a feat not matched since the late 50s.
No argument regarding Byrne's X-Men run (assuming you are referring to the Claremont-Byrne run, and not any later re-visitations); if those were the only comics he ever drew, Byrne would have to be acknowledged as a great comic-book artist. As for Fantastic Four, as a fan of an earlier version of the series, I had to stop reading FF when I realized that JB's handling of particular Lee-Kirby elements (e.g., Aunt Petunia) was ruining those elements for me when I went back to re-read the earlier classics. And I just can't see that his work on Superman was much of an achievement (in artistic terms, not commercial). As we now see on a regular basis, creators given free rein to wipe out what went before and start over can always goose fan interest for a few months.

Dementia5 wrote:
I think he is responsible for bridging today's readers with most Silver Age readers; members of both camps praise his work so often and loudly.

His Next Men is often lauded with the same level of credibility and acceptance as another creator-owned product, that of Mignola's HellBoy.

Take away all these deeds, and we haven't even touched upon his artwork, which many, including myself, consider to be second to none. When I read John Byrne, it's money in the bank for me. His consistency is outright spectacular, and he has never missed a deadline. Not once.
On the few occasions I have recently looked at JB's new art, I have been surprised and dismayed at how little resemblance it bears to his outstanding work on X-Men. The current work seems scant in detail, and lacking in the vivid depictions of action and emotion that characterized his X-Men work.

Dementia5 wrote:
With all this, I would not only qualify Byrne as an exemplary story-teller, but as the best writer in the business with a legacy that will last longer than just about anyone breaking onto the scene over the past decade.
Not having read a JB-written story in over 25 years, I probably ought to let this one pass, but.... "best writer in the business"? In a business that has had Steve Englehart, Alan Moore, Will Eisner, Neil Gaiman, Stan Lee, Carl Barks, Archie Goodwin, Harvey Kurtzman, John Broome, Jules Feiffer, and John Stanley? I'm afraid my mileage varies.

And then there is the matter of his personal pettiness, and his tendency to settle personal scores in the very public forum of the pages of his comic-book stories. Remember the issues of Uncanny X-Men, shortly after JB left the title, in which the X-Men encountered Dr. Doom? A character (Arcade, IIRC) struck a match on Doom's armor. Byrne, a few months later, wrote a story in which Doom was examining Doom robots, and noticed a scratch that appeared to have been caused by the striking of a match. The implication was that "Doom" in the X-Men story wasn't the actual Doom, but a robot, thereby unilaterally undoing a significant story point by his ex-collaborator (and by then, his enemy) Chris Claremont. I believe JB also portrayed an unflattering version of Jim Shooter in Legends (DC 1980s mini-series). I think there are other examples, but I can't bring the details to mind right now.

Dementia5 wrote:
And he still delivers... The Atom (2006) saw him in good form.
I'm happy that you enjoy reading JB's work; just as I am almost always happy when I know that anyone is enjoying any comic anywhere. But it seems to me that the level of praise offered here is more extreme than the man's actual achievements warrant, and that it (perhaps unintentionally) denigrates work of other creators no less deserving of praise.
BurningDoom
Posted: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:36:02 PM

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Secret Wars II, yeah, complete crap on paper. But what's all this talk about the original Secret Wars being bad? One of the more memorable stories from my comic book reading "career". And one of Doom's finest moments.

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Thundercron
Posted: Thursday, October 04, 2012 8:14:47 AM

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outcast wrote:
Dementia5 wrote:
Without question, John Byrne is the most versatile comic-book talent of the 20th century and can be forgiven for writing a handful of clunkers. Even Neil Young is forgiven one bad song per album. Let's refer to John Byrne as the Robert Plant of comics.
"Most versatile comic-book talent of the 20th century" covers a helluva lot of territory. More versatile than Will Eisner? Than Jack Kirby (taking into account his entire career, not just the tin-eared writing in his post-1970 work)? Than Walt Kelly (who did outstanding comic-book work before settling into a newspaper comics career)? Than Harvey Kurtzman? Than Carl Barks? Than Walter Simonson?

Dementia5 wrote:
I cannot think of a single comic-book creator who can even hold a candle to the equi-partitioned talent in both writing and drawing at anytime during his/her long career; maybe Kirby but I suspect Stan the Man had a lot of say in the quality of his deliverables.

Alongside the stellar FF and Superman run, he is jointly responsible for the best story arc the X-Men will ever see, has been awarded two Eagle awards and has been inducted in the Comic Book Creator Hall of Fame. He is directly responsible for a quorum of Marvel readers defecting to DC, as followers of his work, leading to DCs claim to #1 in sales in 1986... a feat not matched since the late 50s.
No argument regarding Byrne's X-Men run (assuming you are referring to the Claremont-Byrne run, and not any later re-visitations); if those were the only comics he ever drew, Byrne would have to be acknowledged as a great comic-book artist. As for Fantastic Four, as a fan of an earlier version of the series, I had to stop reading FF when I realized that JB's handling of particular Lee-Kirby elements (e.g., Aunt Petunia) was ruining those elements for me when I went back to re-read the earlier classics. And I just can't see that his work on Superman was much of an achievement (in artistic terms, not commercial). As we now see on a regular basis, creators given free rein to wipe out what went before and start over can always goose fan interest for a few months.

Dementia5 wrote:
I think he is responsible for bridging today's readers with most Silver Age readers; members of both camps praise his work so often and loudly.

His Next Men is often lauded with the same level of credibility and acceptance as another creator-owned product, that of Mignola's HellBoy.

Take away all these deeds, and we haven't even touched upon his artwork, which many, including myself, consider to be second to none. When I read John Byrne, it's money in the bank for me. His consistency is outright spectacular, and he has never missed a deadline. Not once.
On the few occasions I have recently looked at JB's new art, I have been surprised and dismayed at how little resemblance it bears to his outstanding work on X-Men. The current work seems scant in detail, and lacking in the vivid depictions of action and emotion that characterized his X-Men work.

Dementia5 wrote:
With all this, I would not only qualify Byrne as an exemplary story-teller, but as the best writer in the business with a legacy that will last longer than just about anyone breaking onto the scene over the past decade.
Not having read a JB-written story in over 25 years, I probably ought to let this one pass, but.... "best writer in the business"? In a business that has had Steve Englehart, Alan Moore, Will Eisner, Neil Gaiman, Stan Lee, Carl Barks, Archie Goodwin, Harvey Kurtzman, John Broome, Jules Feiffer, and John Stanley? I'm afraid my mileage varies.

And then there is the matter of his personal pettiness, and his tendency to settle personal scores in the very public forum of the pages of his comic-book stories. Remember the issues of Uncanny X-Men, shortly after JB left the title, in which the X-Men encountered Dr. Doom? A character (Arcade, IIRC) struck a match on Doom's armor. Byrne, a few months later, wrote a story in which Doom was examining Doom robots, and noticed a scratch that appeared to have been caused by the striking of a match. The implication was that "Doom" in the X-Men story wasn't the actual Doom, but a robot, thereby unilaterally undoing a significant story point by his ex-collaborator (and by then, his enemy) Chris Claremont. I believe JB also portrayed an unflattering version of Jim Shooter in Legends (DC 1980s mini-series). I think there are other examples, but I can't bring the details to mind right now.

Dementia5 wrote:
And he still delivers... The Atom (2006) saw him in good form.
I'm happy that you enjoy reading JB's work; just as I am almost always happy when I know that anyone is enjoying any comic anywhere. But it seems to me that the level of praise offered here is more extreme than the man's actual achievements warrant, and that it (perhaps unintentionally) denigrates work of other creators no less deserving of praise.


I don't think the Doom reference was a personal vendetta against Claremont. Enemies? Maybe I missed something.

On a related note, I believe that it was Walter Simonson who wrote in FF #350 that every Dr. Doom that appeared anywhere since FF #40 was actually a Doombot, because that was the issue where the "original" finally showed up again. Or something.
BurningDoom
Posted: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:42:51 AM

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If it was FF #350, then it wasn't Byrne. Byrne wrote a lot of the #200s issues.

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