I'm not quite certain why you're singling ME out. I haven't approved or rejected any of your requests.

It's true, that I don't think they're variants. I think they're newsstand covers. And, just because one issue is already (incorrectly) included in the database, is not justification for other mistakes to be added. That's counter-productive.

In addition, it's not my fault you decided to spend your hard-earned money on a newsstand variant. I don't make anybody spend money on anything, and there's nothing here at CCL that states that you have to buy an issue to add it to the database. I've added tons of comics to the database that I wouldn't ever actually purchase.

So, no. It's not my personal beliefs that have caused any issues here to be rejected. If my personal beliefs had any great sway here, there'd be a lot of other changes made to the system. I go along with the rules put down by CCL in the past (that state a newsstand cover is NOT a variant unless it has different cover art or a different price, and a UPC box or the price-point box is NOT enough of a cover art difference to count), and I go along with the majority ruling of approver votes for major changes to the rules/regulations we use here.

It's not CCL's fault that you bought those comics simply for the purpose of adding them CCL. Nobody forced you to, or even asked you to. I wouldn't do that.

But regardless of that fact, if it is a Whitman, then I'd tend to agree that it should be listed as a variant. What if someone is looking for the Whitman versions, specifically, to buy here on CCL?

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Make sure that you read and understand the forum rules here

As per the CCL Change Request Guidelines that you stick to:

Do Whitman editions of DC/Gold Key books get special treatment and if so, what?
C - Include both the regular publisher and Whitman on the Whitman variants.

BAM



I am not hugely upset about spending the money but it is the principle of the matter. At this point CCL has accepted and readily accepts Dynamic Forces comics as variants even signed ones.

So lets say tomorrow you see a few on sale that you normally wouldnt collect but see they are missing from DB. Now you buy them and BAM some approver decides that DF books no longer belong. So not only did you waste your money but time as well.

It also helps breed a feeling of why try? I mean seriously how long has CCL been here? Probably 50% of the variants on spiderman I added, but if you keep changing minds, and not all approvers know the rules as shown above then it causes issues.



lol, yeah I think I will just stop trying. I know the variants and can look in my comic boxes for proof.

Dynamic Forces variants are established variants. Most of them have a large DF logo on the front, and a big CoA comes with the book, which we can see when the submitter provides a scan of the CoA.

Your "Whitman" variants do not have the Whitman logo on them. They have a simple line printed through the UPC code, which, as Pat has just stated, could be either from a Direct Market version, which does NOT make it a variant, or it could be from a Whitman bagged multi-pack. We don't know.

Oh. And, in the Guidelines you so helpfully provided, it does say DC/GOLD KEY books. Those that have the Whitman logo on the cover in place of the DC or Gold Key logos. Your Spider-Man books have a Marvel logo, not a Whitman logo.

(Does that qualify for a BAM?)

SO. If you've got proof, other than word-of-mouth or your saying "it's a whitman" provide it, and this whole business can be ended.

(Is it April yet?)

Doom --- Most times (until this Spider-Man saga) a Whitman variant refers to comics published by Whitman and bearing a Whitman logo. For example:

DC Comics Presents #1 DC Logo

DC Comics Presents #1 Whitman Logo

If you look at the second book, you'll see that, in place of the usual DC logo in the upper-left hand corner, is a Whitman logo. Whitman books are, at least for DC and Gold Key, a bit harder to find, and they can carry a premium. Not always, but occasionally. They're a bit of a niche market item.

The Spider-Man books being discussed, do not bear the Whitman logo. They have the regular Marvel logo. The UPC box, has a black line printed through the barcode. Which may mean the books were part of a bagged set, like you might have seen at Toys R' Us in the past. Or they could be Direct Market covers, with the line through the barcode to signify that they were not sold at the local drug store or on a newsstand.

good luck guys, i hope you can work it out...peacefully...

@SwiftMann:

There are, in fact, lots of Marvel directs that have "a diamond cover without the UPC strikethrough." I think every Marvel direct dated March 1980 thru mid–1982 would fit that description.

Unless your comment was meant to be restricted to the set of covers submitted by the OP. If that was your intent, then please disregard this comment.

I see. I now know I own a Whitman comic since I have that Whitman DC Comics Presents #1. (But it's pretty beat-up.)

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You can go back and forth with dates times etc but need to pick one or the other.

While I agree there isnt as much evidence that issues #32-38 are whitmans or just when Marvel decided to switch to Diamond covers for Direct issues. However since CCL has already approved issue #36 as a whitman it would reason that issues #32-35 would therefore be Whitmans as well and then you could debate issues #37 and #38.

It is obvious that after issue #38 marvel fixed all of its problems and went to the spidey head on issue #39 and up, though there has been discussion that Whitman tried a come back with issue #60 but wont go into that.

However your dates or BIPS dates are just the standard jargon to encompass all books but has been proven wrong on numerous occasions. I think it was the plan but didnt work on all books. Example here is Star Wars #30 printed December 1979 in a whitman pack well after the cutoff date of June 1979.




So CCL needs to make a stand, if you want to say issues #32+ are too hard to verify then I am fine with that, but you cant say issue #36 is a whitman but not #35.

Dylan, those scans of sealed Whitman bags with those issues in them are sufficient, in my opinion, to get them added as Whitman variants.

That said, I now feel that the June 1979 date is a good cut off for Whitman variants based on my own experience.

I approved some of your requests. I read the info on the BIP site and looked at their examples and took it as good info. I believed that the diamond boxes signified a Whitman variant. I also read the line about Marvel using the diamond on Direct Editions starting in June 1979 (as pointed out by SwiftMann), but it seemed to me that it was not conclusive but could apply to both Direct and Whitman 3-packs. I also read some good posts on another site (Google "Marvel Whitman variants", site is collectors society). But as I read the recent posts here, I became less convinced of the validity of the diamond being exclusive to Whitman after June 1979.

I am now convinced and agree with icarus201 that the only true Whitman variants are pre-June 1979 and have a blank UPC box or a regular UPC box in 1977-78. I came to this conclusion after digging out and checking my own copies of Spectacular Spider-Man. I bought my comics at one of the early comic book shops (The Million Year Picnic in Cambridge MA). I did not buy any Whitman 3-packs. All of my copies of the issues in question have the diamond price box and the UPC box with the slash through it. That has convinced me that Marvel used that on their early version of the Direct Editions.

Just because I may have approved the Whitman variant for any issues after #30 of Spectacular Spider-Man does not mean we will approve any more if that was in error. We make mistakes, we are human and when additional information is brought up, opinions can change.

I hope this helps and that you continue to add info to the database and are not discouraged by this.

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